Performance Module Types

[MOates]

Saw the pdf version of an article from TDR 48 on one website. They tested about 10 different brands of tuners/modules to figure out how they worked and see what they were capable of. On their graph of EGT's vs HP, they divided these modules up by how they worked - pressure only, pressure and timing, duration and timing. But except for the TST module, they didn't identify which modules were pressure only, which were pressure and timing, etc.



Could anyone give me a quick rundown, by brand and using the pressure/timing/duration classifications above, as to how the different modules/tuners operate? TST they identified in the article as duration/timing, Banks Six Gun and Diesel Power Digi CR I've figured out as pressure/timing/duration, but the ones such as Dr Performance Predator I'm still pretty much in the dark.



Specific vehicle I'm looking at is a stock '04 Dodge 2500 Quad Cab 4X4 w/ Auto transmission, Common Rail (305 HP, pre-'04. 5). Belongs to a friend in Rock Springs WY. He has a long commute to work, and a long move to TX in the next couple of weeks, and diesel prices are killing him. He's on a tight budget, and as kind of an early Christmas present I said "I'll buy if you'll fly" as far as getting some type of module/tuner to help out on MPG and towing his toyhauler down to Texas. Hey, we're both retired Navy, known him for 25 years and was best man at the wedding, and his 6 year old son calls me "Uncle Mitch", how can I not help out?



Basially, we're looking for the most bang for the buck MPG wise, and something that's not going to cause inadvertent damage to his otherwise stock truck. By asking about how the different modules work, I'm trying to make sure that we don't end up with some cheap fly by night module that just jacks up fuel pressure to the point it lifts his fuel pressure relief and puts his truck out of commission, it would put him under financially. HP and torque increases aren't a consideration here, primary are price, fuel economy, vehicle reliability, works with an all stock vehicle, and ease of installation (3 weeks until the move to Texas, he doesn't have time to install a mega kit).



Also, both of us own Jeep Liberty CRD's, so whatever proves out on the Cummins brand wise will probably also end up on those as well.

 

[JRD]

Im like you guys and Im a tad scared of pressure boxes. So when I buy my box, it will be a timing/duration box. I too am looking for something that will not grenade my auto trans, give me some better mpg, a little extra pep and no cost to engine life or reliability. Although the TST sounds great and I drool over the thought of my truck making some 600 horses, having a 4 digit torque number and enough smoke coming out the tail pipe to make an old freight train put to shame, its just not for me. It would be waaayyyy to tempting to crank it up to level 9/9 and smile from ear to ear. From a financial standpoint, if my truck breaks... Im screwed

So I looked at other boxes that dont increase rail pressure that wont be too hard on the powertrain and would provide me with some mpg increases and Im came up with the Van Aaken 3. 2 This will more than likely be my choice as it has 3 power levels, and from what I hear many people have seen a good increase in fuel economy over say the BullyDog Triple Dog and smoother power than the Quadzilla boxes (which add pressure). Im not knocking those other boxes as Im sure they are great products. Just based on my recent research and thinking somewhat maturely, the Van Aaken 3. 2 seems to be the answer. This box does however have a pretty significant torque jump on the dyno sheet and could cause problems for weak trans parts. But as long as you dont run around town with it on level 3 and mash the petal at every light, this box should give you years of reliable, safe additional hp, tq and mpg. Hope this somewhat helps.

 

[Crazygator]

Call Mark from Diesel Performance Parts. He will tell you everything you need to know and help you get the right box.



www.dieselperformanceparts.com

 

[SLJolley]

MOates, for you I would go with the van Aaken C3. 1. It is a pressure box but is a safe one as the pressure is added early on and then drops off. It is about a 70 HP gain and you would see a good mileage gain as well.



JRD, VA doesn't have a C3. 1 for the 05 so the 3. 2 is a good choice.

 

[jvjump]

Triple dog you can pick from three setting timing/duration,timing/duration, timin/duration/pressure. Can put in truck in about 15 min on stock truck had no heat issues towing total weight of over 32,000. This was on a total stock truck that is used for nothing but towing and daily. 43foot goose neck three axle with two pulling trucks loaded on it. Truck is a auto. You would be able to upgrade the programer if you want more down the road. We all know how that works we all say that is all we want until someone has something bigger and badder. Horse power and toqure are becoming my drug of choice.

 

[Buffalo]

Safe Boxes

First of all, Welcome to the TDR.



I can't answer all of your questions but, like one of the other reply's, I'm, also, looking for & investigating boxes that are safe to our fuel delivery systems.



In my reading, it looks like you can SAFELY go up to the 65 HP area without compromising your turbo or fuel delivery system. However, quite a few people have gone beyond that level, without damage.



I've read enough about preasure, only, boxes to be wary of them. An aftermarket, performance injector builder had pictures of the damage that higher preasures can do (DonM). Not to mention the preasure relief valve in the HPCR system.



I posted a thread in this forum entitled "NON-Preasure Boxes (Edge Juice/Attitude, VA-C3. 2)?" and, also, at another website "Diesel Truck Resource.com" (3 Gen. Performance Only Discussions, forum). I got more informative responses over at the DTR. You may want to check that thread, also. It may help answer some of your questions.



I've been hearing a lot of good stuff about the new Edge Juice/Attitude. It, apparently, does duration, timing and a little bit of preasure (in the 305/555 engines,only). I don't know how much "a little bit of preasure is", however. Some think it is a safe level. If you don't have guages, the Edge J/A has them with 5 levels of adjustability.



The other box I'm considering is the Van Aaken C -3. 2, which, is a duration box, which, apparently does some boost fooling, also. Alot of people really like this box. They say it delivers smooth power, safely with no codes. One guy responded saying that he thought it ran a bit hot, though. It has in-cab adjustability & three levels, stock, 130 HP. & something in between (probably 65 HP. ). The VA-C3. 2 can be had for quite a bit cheaper than the Edge J/A but, you don't get quite as much, either. If your friend does not have guages (pyrometer & boost) that would be something he should have, also, to safely run a box. By the time the VA-C3. 2 & guages are purchased, it may bring the bill to more than what the Edge J/A would cost.



Rumor has it that Van Aaken is coming out with a VA-C3. 3 box that will have duration, timing & a small bit of preasure. It should be out in a month or two.



If you decide to go with a box that does just duration, you can add timing in by doing the "Tone Ring Mod", which is free. You can read about it here and on the DTR site. Then you would have duration & timing. That mod is not hard to do, either.



You mentioned that you & your friend are retired Navy. Just wanted to Thank You for your service to our Country.



Hope this helps & Good Luck with your decision. Wish I had a friend that would buy me a box, or anything, for that matter!!!



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[FWiessing]

Edge Products

This is my first trip at giving some advice from my own experience. I have to agree with gentleman about DieselPerformance Products. I purchased an EZ Edge in cab adjustable from them and they were very good about making sure it was the right one for my truck I live in Colorado so I know a little about how the thinner air affects my truck's performance. The highest MPG that I ever gotten was 21. 7 according to overhead display. But when I checked miles to gallon used it was more like 19. 5. I use Stanadyne fuel conditioner to treat my fuel. There is also good information available from the manufacturers of the chipped boxes by just calling them. I chose the Edge module after talking directly to them on the phone and also by asking the people at DieselPermance Products. They both asked the right questions, what was I going to use my truck for.



2004. 5, 3500QC, 600/300, RE48 Trans, SRW, EZ Edge, Mag-HytecTran Pan, A-Pillar DiPricol fuel pressure gage, Autometer top of dash mount C2's(Boost, EGT, transmission Temp),Rhino Lined 8Ft Bed.

 

[MOates]

Guys, thanks a bunch for all the suggestions, and also for the kind words about my and my friend's service in the military.



It'll probably be this Sunday before he and I are able to get together by phone and discuss which way to go, he's working 6 day weeks, does operation/maintenance on natural gas wells for a company contracted to BP Oil (geez, you'd think they'd give him a discount at the pump).



We're not adverse to any particular method, including pressure and turbo boost, as long as, as one of you put it, it's done SAFELY AND WITHIN LIMITS.



Given the time constraints and the fact he'll probably have to be installing it outside at this time of year in western Wyoming, I doubt that any additional monitoring gauges such as turbo boost and EGT would be feasible right now. It's going to need to be something that he can use safely and reliably right out of the box, no aux hardware such as gauges or intake and exhaust mods.



From what I've seen on this and other lists, it seems that the most he could reasonably expect to achieve would be 2 to 3 MPG, with some variation between different modules. Let me know if I'm off base on that assumption. And don't get me wrong, right now he'd be happy with even a 1 MPG increase, having to fill up at least twice per week. A 3 MPG increase would have him jumping for joy.



If possible, we'd like to try a system from a manufactuer that also makes a version for the Jeep Liberty CRD. That way, with real world data from the Cummins, we could decide if it was worth spending the cash to put something similar on our CRD's. So far I've only come across 4 brands that have anything for the CRD -



1 - Dr Performance Predator module. A few people on the LOST KJ CRD forum have opted for this, no real feedback yet. Their website says they do pressure and timing, but given how their module hooks up (one end in the fuel pressure sensor, the other end to the stock sensor harness), I sorta have my doubts about the timing part. Also, no word on their site about how high they jack the pressure up or any safety limits. Also haven't seen anyone else saying they've tried one of these. They did have the link to the TDR 48 article I mentioned though, so I'll give them credit there.



2 - Bully Dog. Developing stuff for the CRD, asking for beta testers. But somehow pulling the computer out of my vehicle and sending it to be reprogrammed seems to be a bit much trouble. As far as my friend's Dodge, if we tried one of their modules and it gave good results, I'd be willing to try their CRD version.



3 - TS Performance in KY, MP-8 programmer. Haven't heard anything on this one, appears to be rather new and an unknown quantity.



4 - Diesel Power Digi CR. German company that's been supplying modules in Europe and Canada. Haven't seen anyone claim to be running one of these. Seems to emphasize reliability and modest performance gains, only what they can get by staying within stock engine safety limits. Pressure/timing/duration, don't do turbo boost, claiming max increase of 30% HP/torque and 2 to 3 MPG. From the pictures of their hookup harness, I can believe these guys are actually doing all 3 (pressure/duration/timing).



Any feedback on the above 4 modules?

 

[SLJolley]

van Aaken has a module for the Liberty. I know they have sent a few out but I haven't heard any response on how they work.

 

[MOates]

Checked the VA website last night. They didn't mention anything yet for the Liberty, but then they didn't have the 3. 3 listed yet either. Probably haven't updated their website yet, or they could still be in beta testing on it.



Looked at the specs and pics of the 3. 1, liked what I saw, some good German engineering like DP. Liked the way it hooked up, you KNOW this beast is talking with the computer and not just screwing with the sensors.



One question I do have, I'm a little unclear on what they're talking about with the term "boost fooling". Like I said, don't have anything against any particular method as long as it doesn't make something go "bang", would just like to understand how it works and any pro and cons involved.

 

[DPKetchum]

If you want a 1 or 2 mpg gain and NO issues with a little bottom end grunt,smooth idle without having to worry about gauges replace the crank sensor with one from ROKK Industarys for $70. 00 or so.

 

[Buffalo]

MOates,



The information I got, from over at the DTR, was that the VA-3. 3 would not be out for 1-2 months.



Have you gone over to the DTR (diesel truck resource.com). I posted a thread there in the 3rd Gen. Performance & Accessories, only, forum entitled NON-Preasure boxes (VA-C3. 2, Edge J/A, etc. ). There are 34 replies regarding this topic. You might find it interesting & helpful.



Regarding the Rocktek Sensor ($70. 00). My understanding is that the same thing can be accomplished by doing the "Tone Ring Mod", which, is free. If I am wrong about this, please feel free to correct me. But, that is what I have read, any number of times.



My experience with the "Tone Ring Mod" is that there was an extremely slight increase in acceleration (you would probably not notice it unless you new the mod had been done). I don't know about the fuel mileage increase, yet. I have heard that this mod will help with a box that does not have timing incorporated into it.



Another option is the Quad Towing Box (65 HP, Preasure, Only). A lot of people seem to really like it, also. But, I'm a little afraid of preasure boxes. This box is pretty cheap, also. Less than $300. 00, I've heard.



Hope this helps.



Joe F. (Buffalo)



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[DPKetchum]

Tone ring or sensor both work the same. Idle is smotther,off idle is a noticable improvemet and mpg is a instant improvement. Sensor is easier to do at home in back yard and gives you a spare etc. Best free or inexspensive mod you cpuld ever do. Did neigbors 05 auto dually 3. 73 gears andhe noticed the quicker low end just going up my drive. His HIGH on overhead was in the 19s mpg asnd first 100 miles with mod done was high 20s and low 21s. He just finished a horse haul and had never gone over 430 miles on tank hauling and after mod 485 and overhead was mid 14.

 

[Buffalo]

DPKetchum,



Thanks for the information.



My experience may just be "my truck" or my seat-of-the-pants dynomometer isn't working as well as it should.



There is an increase in performance, with this mod. I noticed that the acceleration is a tad bit better as you wind it up. However, it's not a performance increase like you would probably notice by putting a box on the truck. Like you said, the idle seems to be smoother, also, on mine. I have not been able to check my mileage, yet. Hoping for an increase, though.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[MOates]

Thanks guys, the sensor/tone ring mod sounds like something that's a good idea regardless of whether or not my friend adds a box, a good basic mod to make it run better. Any links you can give me to check out the tone ring mod and sensor online? For $70, I'll probably just go ahead and order one and get it sent out to my friend ASAP.



I checked out the DTR website. You were right Buffalo, some good responses there. But I'm starting to wonder about the VA 3. 1, in particular the boost fooling. I saw where some said that the 3. 2 ran a little hot, and the mention about not having enough turbo to run it. I'm wondering if the 3. 1 would cause similar problems with EGT's, since my friend doesn't have the appropriate gauge.



If you get time, check out www.dieseltuning.com , and tell me what you think. These guys stress safety and reliability to the point it's almost anal.

 

[DPKetchum]

www.rokktech.com

 

[RMalone]

remember though if you do the tone ring mod or crank sensor mod, then you don't want to add a box that also advances timing. You can only advance timing so much before trouble starts.