Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) piston rings

[TRCM]

can the rings be replaced without pulling the engine ?



I'm beginning to think my blowby is wasted rings.



any ideas ?



and if not, any recommendations on who can do the work ?

 

[moparguy]

TRDM, can they be changed in frame. I think so, not easy and not the best route to take, but I'd say it's possible.



I've got a thread going about my project truck, a 98 12v short cab auto 4x4 that had dusted rings from a bad stock air filter. https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155020



It took lit'l bro and me about 10 hours to pull the engine. I wouldn't recommend doing anything else. With the engine out you can really clean everthing, do proper checks to determine wear, you have total access to the top of the block to hone the cylinders properly, and while with the right tools, this could likely be done inframe, man it would be tough.



Why do you suspect rings, if the air filter has always done it's job and you didn't have any other intake air leaks, rings should be fine. Well if things ever got super hot, that could have damaged them.



Good luck, RR



Added in edit: check this thread, toward the end it bends to discussing valve guide seals. https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125349

 

[TRCM]

Well, I got the truck used. and since I bought it, it has had some extremely excessive blowby, and it is now using oil (1 qt every 1000 miles).



None of the other blowby issues/fixes have stopped it.



I have the stock airbox here, as it came with the truck, and it had a k & n in it. I'm thinking that the previous owners used it, and it may have trashed the rings.



The only other possibilites for this much blowby are turbo seals (not likely as it does it ALL the time, not just under boost), or a bad vacuum pump (not likely - I had it off, saw nothing wrong or suspicious, and even with the vac system isolated, it has no effect on blowby)



BTW, I did a blowby check, and it has 3+ times the normal amount (homemade manometer)



My oil analyses have come back with no certain indicators for the rings, but, silica is still not back down to normal (it is coming down). I'm beginning to think it has been run with a bad airfilter for a good long time before I got hold of it. Even the turbo looks as if it has had some dirty air thru it.



Truck runs very well, but it has a smoke cloud from the blowby at a stop light, and it is now using oil at a regular rate. I'm sure bumping the timing up hasn't helped the blowby issue.

 

[moparguy]

Well, you make a good case for ring wear. A quick couple of thoughts. One is oil, if you're using any of the synthetic 5W40s, I'd go to 15W40 Delo. Might help. If you're using a 15W40, I'd try a quart of Lucis oil additive. I wouldn't add it to a perfect engine, but if it helps your oil burning issue, it could add support to the worn ring theory.



And if it did help, I'd keep running it, after all, what have you got to loose.



Another thought. My truck was a bit too far gone for this, but Fleetguard has a product called EnviroGuard that seperates the oil out of the blo-by and returnes it to the engine. No smoke at stop lights, no lost oil.



The model we need is CV50115. Cost is somewhere in the mid $200 range. A lot cheaper than a rebuild.



Good luck, RR

 

[TRCM]

I'll have to look into that. The model you said is for 98 -02 tho, and may not fit as well on mine.



I had been thinking about making something very similiar to that, but I was considering feeding the filtered air back into the filter. It was gonna have a tortous flow path, and some filter media to remove the entrained oil.



I may see about this product now tho. I'd rather not feed possibly oil laden air into my turbo.

 

[Dieseldemon]

Check the breather hose if there is no blowby there the vent is plugged I have seen several that were plugged

 

[TRCM]

Check the breather hose if there is no blowby there the vent is plugged I have seen several that were plugged

Npt sure where this came from, cuz there is PLENTY of blowby. . hence the reason I think it is rings.

 

[TRCM]

Well, I did the enviroguard thing.



the part number posted, AND the one cummins gave me (even aftr giving them the engine numbers) is for a 98-02 engine.



I did get it installed, but I lost my oil fill tube for now, as that is where is goes. I also plumbed the filtered air from it into the air filter, and plugged the factory blow off tube.



Seems to be working well, and I now have no blowby, and no oil leaks.



I'll run it awhile and see how it does.

 

[moparguy]

Great, I had seriously considered one. But the bad air filter had damaged the rings to the point a rering was the only option.



You can always install a filler cap in number one valve cover for oil changes, now you'll truly know if your engine is burning oil, no blowby, I like that.



Was the price I posted in the ball park?



Thanks for posting, look forward to hearing how it works long term.



Good luck, RR

 

[ROADWARRIOR]

How is the EnviroGuard working out?

 

[JFaughn]

I haven't done to Cummins but I have done piston R&R on inline engines before , the problem is getting the pan off & having the room to work with the ft. axial , that last one I did was a 4x4 , but had more room .
That one had lost a bearing , so I swapped the crank , pull the piston swapped the connecting rod , just have to be careful to not damage rings is more work , it had a head gasket before it came to me , its got 20,000+ since then , with no problems .

 

[GOlsen]

Ok, I have a question. How can you tell if you have excessive blow by? I ask, because at the current time, I have a large amount of white smoke (sometimes has a slightly blueish tint) coming out of the exhaust, almost all the time. Is this something that can be caused by excessive blow by? TIA.

 

[JFaughn]

After the eng starts [ but before it warms up ] open the radiator cap listen watch for pressure , if real bad you'll get bubbles , also the oil would be chocolate cream looking , maybe oil in rad , does it blow anything into rad. res. ?
But all of that are signs , not for sure , need to do a leakdown test to be sure .

 

[GOlsen]

After the eng starts [ but before it warms up ] open the radiator cap listen watch for pressure , if real bad you'll get bubbles , also the oil would be chocolate cream looking , maybe oil in rad , does it blow anything into rad. res. ?
But all of that are signs , not for sure , need to do a leakdown test to be sure .

Would that be more for a blown headgasket? I have looked for signs before. Oil doesn't have water in it, coolant doesn't have oil in it. I'll check for bubbles next time I head out.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

It is not practical to replace the rings without pulling the engine on your Turbo Diesel. First you should run a compression or leakdown test, using an adapter designed to work in the injector hole. If indeed ring seal is the problem, you should plan to pull the engine from the truck. For rings to seal properly, you will need to hone the cylinders and you cannot get a hone into cylinders 5 and 6 while the engine is in the truck, due to cowl clearance. You also would find it hard not to get grit into the engine if the engine is not completely disassembled. Mike the cylinder walls and check for a ridge or an erosion groove near the top of the cylinders, caused by rocking of the top ring. If all is well, you could purchase a ball hone (balls of grit on the ends of steel bristles) and hand hone the cylinders using a powerful electric drill and diesel fuel as lubricant. For the new rings to seal to the piston grooves, it is much better to get new pistons as well. Since the engine is apart, mike and inspect the crankshaft and plan on new bearings since yours have a lot of miles on them. And, by the way, get a good valve job done, including checking the guides, and both block and head surfaces for flatness and lack of etching around the gasket sealing rings for the cylinders. Factory specification is 60 to 120 microinches for the surfaces, which is very smooth. You wouldn't be able to catch a fingernail in the "scratches. "