Here I am

Pledge of Allegiance: Unconstitutional

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

Who's going to BOMB this???

4.3 V6 GM water loss

What in the wide world of sports is going on in this country?!?!?!?

FOX News

:--) :--) :--) :--) :--) :--) :--) :--) :--) :--)

I promise not to rant, although all of you should feel free to do so, but at what point did the seperation of church and state get translated into: "If you are dealing with the government you must be an atheist. "? Isn't atheisim a religion? It is a religious philosophy at least (atheisim= I am convienced that there is no god)!

Ok, I promised not to rant, so I'll quit here.

Scott
 
What else would you expect from the 9th Circuit of Court of Appeals? They are in the San Francisco area, ya know. You mean to tell me that these liberal ay wholes have nothing better to do with our tax dollars than to hear crap like this?:mad: I still find it hard to believe that the majority of Americans, real Americans that is, put up with this. There will come a time, mark my words, that those jerk-offs are going to step on it big time and then we'll finally get justice.



Next to go, America the Beautiful. Afterall, it does say God's name in it, so it must be bad.
 
This is BS!!!:mad: They need to get rid of those judges. If a person doesn't want to live in this country and follow the beliefs it was founded on, then they can move out! There is some bare land in IRAN that I'm sure they could buy cheap!



Stan
 
We, in Alaska, usually get the short end of the stick from those bozo's in the 9th Circut. They absoulty rule for the environatzis every time. Maybe now someone (GW) will swat them down a bit. The are out of control.
 
Makes me want to take the money out of my wallet and throw it away. Darn, I don't have any. Maybe if we can convince terrorists that lawyers are the source of all evil, we can get rid of two problems at the same time.
 
Background check

For the record, not to be perceived as judgemental(hehehehe) I offer these facts.

Twenty four judges sit on the bench of the ninth circus court of appeals. Fourteen of them were slick willie appointments and three were peanuts carter appointments. Now, can someone try to convince us that the verdict was not influenced by ideology. Nope.

The Constitution of the United States does NOT forbid the inclusion of God in the founding document, but in fact, states that the foremost reason for declaring ourselves independant of Britain and the mandated allegiance to the Church Of England, was specifically to allow the independant and voluntary choice of the religious faith of the people to exsist. It states, emphatically, that God has been the overwhelming reason for our creation of our Constitution. It is one of the strongest underlying reasons for our independance.

Should be interesting to see what happens when it gets to the Supreme Court.

Talk about backlash, what will the average voter think of this assault on our country's values and freedoms in November?

Ron
 
In 1954 Eisenhower, in an "act" against communism had "under God" added to the pledge of alligence. So, it is not trully part of the founding forefathers writtings.



I do not agree with these morons but this is an interesting point. The Supreme Court can blow it away and probably will!



Mike
 
I think it's a good ruling....

ol ron - cite for me, please, where it " emphatically, that God has been the overwhelming reason for our creation of our Constitution". I can't find it in there anywhere.



paccol - What beliefs was this country founded on? Your God's religion? If you look it up, you'll see that it was NOT founded as a Christian (or any other religious sect) nation. It was founded as a nation where everyone has the right to worship as they please. And who they please.



Lots of people are saying that no one would have a problem with this if it said, "under Allah. " That's also a bad argument becasue Allah is the same God as the Christian and Jewish faiths worship, no?



It's pretty common knowledge that it's the Judeo-Christian God referred to by "under God. " That means that if you're Christian, Jewish or Muslim, it's no big deal. What about if you're Hindu? What about if you're Buddist? Or what about if you're an athiest? What then? Many schools "encourage" you to recite the pledge of allegience. You know as well as I that if you're "different" as a kid, you become an outcast. How's that fair, equal justice and all that.



Many of the immigrants that come to this country are very patriotic. As patriotic as any of us, maybe more than some, I'd venture to guess and are proud to recite the pledge. In some cases (as in getting your citizinship) they are required to recite the pledge. Now, if you're a Buddist, for example, that could cause a dilemma for you. Yes, "If a person doesn't want to live in this country and follow the beliefs it was founded on, then they can move out!" Check your facts - that's not what the founding fathers had in mind when they crafted the Constitution. The whole issue of religion in the Constitution comes down to the fact that the Government CAN'T force religion on you nor can it deprive you from worshiping in whatever (and whomever) manner you choose. Forcing anyone who doesn't believe in "God" is, in fact, endorsing and forcing a religion on you. Can't do that.



As for the Pledge of Allegiance, it wasn't even penned until 1892 and believe it or not, it was penned by a SOCIALIST minister (Baptist) who was basically tossed out of the ministry because of his socialist sermons. The "Under God" phrase wasn't added until 1954 after a political campaign to do so by the Knights of Columbus and in the spirit of McCarthyism. (In god We Trust didn't become standard on our currency until about 1956 either. ) So... where does this fit into our Constitution? It's a construct we have made since then and including the words "Under God" give it the same effect as a prayer, since you're pledging allegiance to the flag and the republic UNDER GOD. Not the intent of the writer of the Pledge. In his own words, from a short history of the Pledge :



"It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution... with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...



The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the 'republic for which it stands. ' ... And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?



Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, 'Liberty, equality, fraternity. ' No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all... "



No, personally, I think this was a good ruling. And I'm not offended in the least by the word God - unless you're trying to use it as a weapon and convert me because your way is better than mine and I'm somehow less if I don't see it your way.





Some other links:

http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm

(Feel free to check the sources)

Here's the Treaty of Tripoli, signed in 1796 and ratified by the Senate. Note Article 11: "As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion... . "

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/diplomacy/barbary/bar1796t.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If this bum has not enough tolerance to allow my child the RIGHT to free speech (in this case, the pledge of allegance), (nobody is forcing his kid to say it) than I say: I have no tolerance for him... . shoot him

He is effectively PROHIBITING free speech... . to he77 with him
 
I think it was a good ruling and the Supreme Court will probably uphold it. I'm very surprised it wasn't done long ago. Separation of church and state. Just because your religion has God doesn't mean other ones do or should. Our country was founded on this principal more than under God. Wait and see, money's next.
 
This 9th circuit court should reverse their decision (considering the outcry in the country right now). Should they not, they may be over-ruled by the supreme court, which, in the past, has considered "God" part of the fabric of this nation, and has not gone out of it's way to remove it.

Knowing that, I'm betting they will reverse the decision themselves. It will never get to the supreme court.
 
This !@#%^#^% probably is against school vouchers too. If he had school vouchers he could have sent his kid to an atheist's school were all the little "devils" could be silent for two seconds when they recited the Pledge of Alligence.



Gene
 
Lets see here, we can't make a person say the Pledge of Allegience because he is an athiest but he can cause millions of people to NOT be able to because of his "rights". I guess this red neck has a problem with this happening. Someone above made the comment about Lawyers that was pretty much on the mark. The constitution has been twisted around so much in the past 20 years or so that the good of the people no longer matters. Next thing we'll hear is some terrorist will claim it is his religion to carry a bomb around and blow people up because it is his right. (and there will be some people that will agree I'm sure!):mad:



Stan
 
Back
Top