Politics Section

[dieselshadow]

You probably work for the vote tabulating company.

Careful, you may be reported as posting a personal attack.

 

[Wayne M.]

Careful, you may be reported as posting a personal attack.

How’s that a personal attack? What’s wrong with working for https://www.honestballot.com/ ?

 

[dieselshadow]

How’s that a personal attack? What’s wrong with working for https://www.honestballot.com/ ?

Depends on who reads it and how they feel you mean that to them. I don’t have control over that Wayne, nor do you. People are so easily offended it’s not funny.

 

[brods]

This thread is a prime example of why politics shouldn’t be allowed on this site. I believe the politics forum was here from back when you could talk politics like gentlemen. It has since become very nasty and divisive. This is a truck forum where we have one thing in common we can come together on. Throw in the extremely nasty world that talking politics has become and this is what happens. There are more than ample forums you can talk politics on and waste your time until you are blue in the face to someone else about your view, and not change theirs. More of a waste of time than sitting on the couch on sundays and watching football! Damage has been done, politico forum is gone, time to heal and come back together as one talking about our beloved Ram CTD’s! Move on folks!

Just to be clear, the Political forum shenanigans has just brought things to a head. Just a couple of days ago another post, not in the Political section, was deleted without a trace. Other internet forums are switching to that Xenforno crap and its now clear that many of the features of the old forum software are available in Xenforno (ie editing your own old posts, getting the text of a new post in your email notification, not having to beg to get an old thread unlocked, not having advertisements INSIDE someone's post box, etc, etc.) and it shows that the lack of these features on the TDR site is the site’s administration choice, not because it can’t be done. Frustrating, but so be it.

This latest issue is one of trust. When the TDR "upgraded" to the Xenforno forum software I remember reading on Xenforno’s website how proud they were that their forum software gives all sorts of stealthy ways for the administrators to manipulate users behind the scenes. Ways to target specific users and purposely run the unwanted ones off. Stuff like screwing up the way the site displays or slowing down the site so the user gets frustrated and stops visiting. As a forum user, I find many things about the Xenforno software very offensive. The TDR is a truck site so I naively figured those kinds of games would not be played here. The admission that the TDR’s behind the scenes plan was to block people from the Politics section if they didn’t post for 6 months and then sit back to see who complains, sure makes it seem that the TDR management has bought into that manipulative management approach.

The TDR has to do what it thinks is best and that is fine. Go ahead and get rid of a forum section, ban people and edit posts, JUST BE UPFRONT ABOUT IT! Own up to what you do and take any lumps that come with those actions. Put “Banned” under a username, or delete the username like has been done for some past members, that way the rest of the members can see that the person is gone and not allowed back. If a mod or admin changes or deletes someone's post, then show some respect to the person who took the time to post, and to the rest of us, by at least leaving a simple "Edited by mod/admin" note behind.

The bottom line is the TDR website has lost my trust, and while I support the TDR’s right to do whatever they want, I also have the right to say NO MORE and to join the ever increasing ranks of those who have moved on, whether their departures were by force or by choice.

Thanks to the forum members and the TDR staff for all the previous great years! :thumbsup:

 

[Wayne M.]

 

[TDRAdmin4]

Don't fell alone, I was banned with no warning that I am aware of. Got put in time out for a week and came back to find I no longer had access to the political area. In the mean time most of my post have found to be pretty spot on regarding what has occurred in the country.

A few thoughts:
1. How can this be? It doesn't fit the narrative some have that TDR only moderates conservative voices. (I'm joking to make a point!)

2. A warning was sent through the warning system. It would have shown up as part of your alert count on the top/right of the menu bar. "Political fighting in tech forums" Nov 30, 2021 at 9:03 PM

3. It was your 4th warning, I opted for a more lenient option to remove political discussion access rather than the 3 strikes rule of a refund and ban. This is consistent with the majority who exceeded 3, locked out from there.

This is another example of a can't win. It was you who violated the rules, have been here long enough to know, and TDR gets blamed.

 

[dieselshadow]

I’ve never seen a warning in my alerts, ever. Are you sure that system is working correctly? It doesn’t seem so according to all the accounts of folks saying they haven’t gotten one. The only thing I’ve ever seen was when a post of mine was deleted. I got that notification.

 

[TDRAdmin4]

Just to be clear, the Political forum shenanigans has just brought things to a head. Just a couple of days ago another post, not in the Political section, was deleted without a trace. Other internet forums are switching to that Xenforno crap and its now clear that many of the features of the old forum software are available in Xenforno (ie editing your own old posts, getting the text of a new post in your email notification, not having to beg to get an old thread unlocked, not having advertisements INSIDE someone's post box, etc, etc.) and it shows that the lack of these features on the TDR site is the site’s administration choice, not because it can’t be done. Frustrating, but so be it.

Brod,

We have never claimed the Xenforo forum software didn't support these things, and we've addressed some of these before. The features TDR used were carried over in large part from the previous vBulletin. There were a few changed after the switch, based on tests before and after with analytics data to see if they improved participation.

Let's take for example, no full text in email notifications. Tests were run (under VB) and there were 10% more posts. People visiting to read had an opportunity to reply they didn't have via email. I believe taking steps to increase posts was the right choice.

This latest issue is one of trust. When the TDR "upgraded" to the Xenforno forum software I remember reading on Xenforno’s website how proud they were that their forum software gives all sorts of stealthy ways for the administrators to manipulate users behind the scenes. Ways to target specific users and purposely run the unwanted ones off. Stuff like screwing up the way the site displays or slowing down the site so the user gets frustrated and stops visiting. As a forum user, I find many things about the Xenforno software very offensive.

Most forum software packages have things like this, including the previous software TDR used.

If forum software had no tools to deal with abuse, forums would be like the wild west Usenet groups in the 1990s and early 2000s.... filled with pages and pages of extremely nasty fights that sometimes when on for weeks, ongoing spam, free for all off-topic posts, porn, and no way to deal with any of it.

So far as changing the software, this was discussed a long time ago. To keep up with security, we had to move off of an unsupported vB.

The TDR is a truck site so I naively figured those kinds of games would not be played here. The admission that the TDR’s behind the scenes plan was to block people from the Politics section if they didn’t post for 6 months and then sit back to see who complains, sure makes it seem that the TDR management has bought into that manipulative management approach.

TDR (and I) have never claimed perfection. I own up when I think a mistake has been made. And I owned up that in hindsight it was a bad decision. We thought out of sight out of mind was the way to let it die with the least problems. It was a bad call, and I won't deny it.

The TDR has to do what it thinks is best and that is fine. Go ahead and get rid of a forum section, ban people and edit posts, JUST BE UPFRONT ABOUT IT! Own up to what you do and take any lumps that come with those actions. Put “Banned” under a username, or delete the username like has been done for some past members, that way the rest of the members can see that the person is gone and not allowed back. If a mod or admin changes or deletes someone's post, then show some respect to the person who took the time to post, and to the rest of us, by at least leaving a simple "Edited by mod/admin" note behind.

The bottom line is the TDR website has lost my trust, and while I support the TDR’s right to do whatever they want, I also have the right to say NO MORE and to join the ever increasing ranks of those who have moved on, whether their departures were by force or by choice.

Thanks to the forum members and the TDR staff for all the previous great years! :thumbsup:

I think TDR was in a no-win situation and no matter how the politics section was handled, someone would not be happy about it. And that’s understandable because different people have different perspectives. Edit - One thing is clear, with the political climate going the way it was, particularly in the last 5-6 years, things couldn't go on the way they were on a site which needs to stay above the political fray.

Some of our decisions were correct, some were not – but all were made with “what’s best for TDR members overall” in mind. We're humans too, and I hope you reconsider - but if not I sincerely wish you well with wherever you choose to go.

 

[TDRAdmin4]

I’ve never seen a warning in my alerts, ever. Are you sure that system is working correctly? It doesn’t seem so according to all the accounts of folks saying they haven’t gotten one. The only thing I’ve ever seen was when a post of mine was deleted. I got that notification.

I've honestly don't know - it should send an alert, at least I've always thought it did. I'll test now and will report back.

 

[kthaxton]

So much drama.

A couple months ago, I got a week off:

Me: (receives warning) "oh, ok, guess I was a bit sassy"
Me: moves on with day/week/life
Many others: "I'm being singled out!" "Biased Censorship!"


This morning (for me) Board disappears:

Me: "Hmmm, perhaps I stepped over the line again, better watch that, OR, they removed the board"
Me: moves on with day/week/life

Moments ago, finds this thread learns, the board is gone:

Me: "Hmmmm, good idea, probably for the best. Slightly bummed I can't copy some of my replies that took a lot of research.... to use elsewhere"
Also Me: "such is life"

Many others: DRAMA! DRAMA!


Regarding the two users using the same IP address thing and the board software......totally understandable mistake. Sheeesh, I wish my life was so simple that I only had stuff like this to set me off.

 

[Tuesdak]

Regarding the two users using the same IP address thing and the board software......totally understandable mistake. Sheeesh, I wish my life was so simple that I only had stuff like this to set me off

Due to one infected computer and typical firewall setup of one IP address an urgent care clinic and related pharmacy got shut down. It took us a day to get it fixed with lots of higher ups involved. "It looked like just one PC" was the excuse given by someone with zero understanding of the greater WAN setup. Lots of overtime to catch up on paper to EHR data entry and the audit to find the problem device.

This is not a trivial concern and was apologized for on here.

 

[Tuesdak]

I think TDR was in a no-win situation and no matter how the politics section was handled, someone would not be happy about it. And that’s understandable because different people have different perspectives. Edit - One thing is clear, with the political climate going the way it was, particularly in the last 5-6 years, things couldn't go on the way they were on a site which needs to stay above the political fray.

Some of our decisions were correct, some were not – but all were made with “what’s best for TDR members overall” in mind. We're humans too, ...

I believe we all give The TDR and you the benefit of the doubt. But there it is as you said. I rest my case with the other members who spoke up as to the harm this section is causing with the untenable balancing act being attempted. Although I enjoy the political section IMO it's not worth the members The TDR is loosing over it.

 

[kthaxton]

Due to one infected computer and typical firewall setup of one IP address an urgent care clinic and related pharmacy got shut down. It took us a day to get it fixed with lots of higher ups involved. "It looked like just one PC" was the excuse given by someone with zero understanding of the greater WAN setup. Lots of overtime to catch up on paper to EHR data entry and the audit to find the problem device.

This is not a trivial concern and was apologized for on here.

I'm not sure I made my point clear....because I have no idea what you are referring to.

What I mean is that TDR staff and software thinking a person made up another username based on what the software told them....is a perfectly understandable mistake. Not worth the drama and demands for apologies that followed...once the issue was revealed.

I've moderated another truck board for about 15 years.....never had a scenario where two users worked in the same building using the same network....and therefore had the same IP address. Totally understandable mistake.

 

[TDRAdmin4]

I’ve never seen a warning in my alerts, ever. Are you sure that system is working correctly? It doesn’t seem so according to all the accounts of folks saying they haven’t gotten one. The only thing I’ve ever seen was when a post of mine was deleted. I got that notification.

Here's what I found about the warning system. Its not good.

- If I send a "stock" warning, it sends Conversation Message from the system showing the board member the warning. If you have conservation alerts turned on, you should get an alert as well. This part works as expected.

- When I sent a custom warning, it sent no Conversation message. This is not good! I tried resending the custom alert, but the 2nd time I removed the stock conversation message it sends, and had it send a custom one. This time it sent a conversation message!

I've been using Xenforo for nearly a decade. I don't know if that's a bug, or how it's intended to work, but it's not how I thought it should work. Because all these years I've had people respond to alerts I assumed they were receiving all of them. But apparently, when it's a custom warning they do not receive the automatic conversation message and I have to write one.

I can understand now why people thought sometimes steps were taken against their posts without warnings being given --- they were not notified when it was a custom warning.

This is horrible. I'm going to let the moderator staff know this about custom warnings, and review custom warnings sent in the past several months. If any action was taken due to a 2nd warning someone received because they didn't know about the 1st, I'll remedy this.

 

[dieselshadow]

I kinda figured something in the “back of house” was causing the lack of warnings. You had posted many times and warned publicly of issues but clearly didn’t call any member out (as should be done to be respectful of others). So members who never saw any warnings, such as myself, believed they didn’t do anything wrong.

I appreciate you looking into that. It’ll obviously help your approach with moderation and dealing with members in the future.

 

[Cooper_D]

post deleted

 

[Tuesdak]

I'm not sure I made my point clear....because I have no idea what you are referring to.

What I mean is that TDR staff and software thinking a person made up another username based on what the software told them....is a perfectly understandable mistake. Not worth the drama and demands for apologies that followed...once the issue was revealed.

I've moderated another truck board for about 15 years.....never had a scenario where two users worked in the same building using the same network....and therefore had the same IP address. Totally understandable mistake.

I will explain it differently.

900 devices (aka PC's Laptops, smart phones, tablets, servers) in 15 separate buildings with buried fiber between em behind a firewall that show up as one IP address. This "one IP" setup is as common as dirt for companies, government, libraries, anything that is not a home user. Some employees do not get internet at home including cell service due to the rural location and make use of break room PC's. Many locations also have a "guest network" that also show up as one IP address.

So it's understandable that a mistake can be made without double checking other things assuming one IP is only one person/computer/device. It's also understandable that people take this knowledge that a single IP can be a firewall for granted. As I mentioned it's a very common setup. As some companies "filter" their internet things get real weird...

I wouldn't think that two or more people from the same company being members would be that rare. Both having trouble may be the rare part.

This was the case of the assumption that one IP address was a single computer for the said urgent care clinic. It wasn't. It was the IP for the firewall of 900 devices. The "shut it off" while well intended was the wrong action, caused major care problems, and cost money. Pales in comparison to their other UBER screw ups but that's a tangent.

 

[kthaxton]

Oh....it confused me because by you explaining that, makes it appear that you are under the impression that I didn't understand the issue....but I do.....

 

[SnoKing]

I kinda figured something in the “back of house” was causing the lack of warnings. You had posted many times and warned publicly of issues but clearly didn’t call any member out (as should be done to be respectful of others). So members who never saw any warnings, such as myself, believed they didn’t do anything wrong.

I appreciate you looking into that. It’ll obviously help your approach with moderation and dealing with members in the future.

The only warning I am aware of regard copy rights. And was told that posting excerpts from an article link was OK, however do not paste in an entire article. That is why I was bit miffed to be locked out of the political section.

 

[DonFitzwater]

The only warning I am aware of regard copy rights. And was told that posting excerpts from an article link was OK, however do not paste in an entire article. That is why I was bit miffed to be locked out of the political section.

Well Snow, at least we got to the bottom of the mystery censorship. I'm glad TDR admin took it seriously and looked into why the warnings weren't showing up.