possible injection issues,

[Hootguy]

I'm new to the third gens,,,i have had a 96 for 15 years and know the 12V pretty good but these electronic are completely new to me,,i recently bought a mint 2007 Megacab 4x4 dually with the 5. 9,,,all was going good,,until last week it started to run real bad at low rpm's,,,then it went away,,,but now is back,,,feels like overfueling in the low range,,at idle speeds it really stinks of diesel smell,,and if i blip the throttle a little i get puffs of black and blue smoke,,,went for a test drive yesterday with a heavily dosed tank of fuel with Power service injector cleaner,,felt a bit better,,but not much,,,seems to run well from 2000 rpm and above,,,but when the torque converter locks up and the rpm's drop,,it shudders pretty strongly,,any ideas at where to start,,,truck has about 150,000 KM's or about 100,000 miles . . i'm hoping to figure out how to fix this before a start ripping out the problematic common rail engine and dropping in the realible bullet proof P pumped 12V LOL... also,,if anyone has ANY information on HOW a person could make such a swap work please let me know,,,,as a 12 v mechanical injected megacab would be a pretty sweet truck,,

 

[JJPage]

Check for codes. Turn the key from off to on without starting, three times, on the third time leave in the on position, any codes will show up in the odometer window, if no codes it will simply read "done".

Does the truck have a fuel box? They are notorious for failing intermittently until they fail altogether.

 

[cerberusiam]

Injectors hanging open, typical problem with the lack of filtration. If you are not getting a CEL it is probably not the solenoids which leaves the internals.

Either pull the injectors and send them off for testing or do it on the truck. Either one should give you an idead what is happening. A cylinder contribution test using the electronics is a good test to have done also.

 

[Hootguy]

I will try the key test,,then i will have a shop i know use the scan tool and see what they can find,,,he mentioned shutting off fuel to each individual cylunder electrronicaly as a test,,,does this sound right??. as for filtration,,,the truck has had a FASS dual filter set up since new apparently,,,i see no evidence of a fueling box,,,hope i can use the truck again soon,,,now i'm driving around in my old reliable 96,,,big difference from my megacab LOl. .

 

[cerberusiam]

The kill test will only work if the injector is dead or malfunctioning at test time. Have them run a cylinder contribution test and a return flow test on all th einjectors for a base line. Normally, that will tell you a lot and suggest a direction to go.

 

[AH64ID]

Not all FASS setups have better filtration than OEM, some have worse. I would find out what pump it is, and what filters are on it.

 

[Hootguy]

I have the older 2 filter FASS with the smaller filters,,i believe the main filter is a fleetguard 5512,,,the set up by-passes the original filter,,but i think i will re-plumb the system to include the original filter too,,still not sure how they disable the original pump,,,since it still has all the original wires running to it,,,all they did was block the line the CP3 end and ziptie the line nearby,,,the filter housing is empty,,,also how would they have stoped the fuel heater from burning out come winter???,,,i did get the scan test done today,,,switched off each cylinder one at a time to detect a change in sound ,,,it seems 2 injectors were not fuctioning as good as they should,,and whne i rev the engine o redline,,the rpm's hang there for a few seconds,,,also,,when i left to go to the shop,,the truck worked great up until about 2 minutes from the shop when it started hicupping again,,,after the test when i got on the highway,,it acted up again,,vibrrating badly under accelaration load and smoothing out a bit when babied,,,i did put in a heavy dose of Diesel Power Service injector cleaner before leaving for the shop,,and tonight after a few trips about 2 hours worth,,when i left my friends house,,it runs fine again,,,could cleaners actually help??/,,i do feel the engine is not as smooth feeling as i think it should,,and the common advice seems to be,,new injectors,,as a few friends have had to do about the same mileage as mine,,is there a good place to get NEW Bosch STOCK injectors at a decent price??... thanks for all the help,,,and if anyone else has any ideas please let me know,,,i would prefer not throwing injectors at it right now,,,my old 12 Valve is still going strong on its original injectors at 400,000 miles,,,starting to regret going electronic,,,

 

[AH64ID]

Do you mean a FF5712? That's the filter that is worse than OEM, and if the f/w sep is a FS19768 it's barely a water separator. I'm sure the original owner thought he was improving the filtration, but he was duped by FASS.

There will be some wires still going to the tank for the fuel sender.

 

[Hootguy]

i love the Fass and wont give it up,,,it's a far better pump than the stock set-up,,but i would like to plumb it back to include the stock filter as well,,so i can have the use of the WIF and fuel heater,,i hear the FASS can easily pump through the third filter... which i figure would be the best idea,,

 

[AH64ID]

It may be a better pump but filtration sucks and that's far more important than pressure on a CP3, those injectors have had worse than OEM filtration on them for how long? Your issue could be filtration related. There are some better choices for filters for the pump, in addition to plumbing back thru the OEM housing. I would put a Baldwin PF7977 in the OEM housing.

As for the FASS you need to contact FASS to get the adapter to run a better final fuel filter. Once you have that I would run a BF1275 and a P551313, then re-plumb it back into the OEM canister.

For reference the min OEM spec is 7um absolute and 95% free and 95% emulsified water sep. The FASS is 10 um absolute, 50% free and 0% emulsified water sep. Bosch specs 5um min for the CP3/injectors on the truck.

 

[cerberusiam]

Yes, the cleaners will help for a time iff the problem is build up in the injectors. If it is wear it won't help and will just keep getting worse. If you rev the engine, wait until the rpms and fuel stabilize then let all the way off the pedal the rpms should drop smoothly. If there are little hangs or notches in the rpm drop, injectors are not performing up to par. Don't worry about a 1-2 count hang at the top end just look at the rpm drop for smoothness.

Yeah, like AH64ID said the original filters did the system no good and removing the OE filter really tanked it. I would leave the fuel filter you have now on the FASS, put an OE filter back in the housing and plumb the fuel thru it then add a 2-3 um filter between the CP-3 and OE housing. You cannot beat multi pass filtration for efficacy. The OE filter has great WS capability so that should protect it well. If you can source a better WS filter for the FASS it is that much better.

Go to Diesel Auto Power or call them and see about injectors. About the best price on NEW injectors around.

 

[Hootguy]

I have been meaning to get the adapter from FASS for a better choice of filters,,,,i dont mind adding the stock filter in the line,,but adding another one between it and the CP3 i dont think i will do,,,not a lot of room for a clean install,,,and i hate messy lines or wirring,,,so if i rev it up to redline and let the pedal go,,,having the RPM's stay up a second or two is OK ???

 

[AH64ID]

If you get the adapter and put a BF1275/P551313 on the FASS and re-plumb the OEM canister you will be fine.

 

[cerberusiam]

Actually,the install of a filter between the OE cannister and CP-3 is pretty clean using the GDP setup. You can build your own of course but either looks and works well. You don't have the APPS in the way so it fits right in there. Really minimal messing with fuel lines if you plan it right. No wiring to worry about, almost a bolt on application.



Three filters are better than 2, and a 3 um final is the ultimate filter to add. The WS filter on the FASS is the biggy to address. The OE filter is good but a more is better than less.



If you hold the revs at peak for 10-15 seconds the let off it will frequently start dropping faster than run it up and let off. The ECU is playing catch up on revving and it takes a beat or 2 to switch to de-rev mode. If the rpm is stabilized it usually takes less time to start dropping because the ECU is better equipped to go one way instead of quickly reverse rail pressures.

 

[AH64ID]

The P551313 is the best filter you can put on a GDP mount, and with the adapter it can be ran on the FASS so you get 3um and don't have to add a 4th filter.

The order isn't sequential, but it's better than not having them.

 

[cerberusiam]

The order isn't sequential, but it's better than not having them.

Definitely. My feeling is if you need to add a filter add it as close to the CP-3 as possible for the best effect. 10 to 5 to 3 is better than 3 to 5 and the flows should be better. The other thing is the FASS seems to be happier and quieter with the larger filters on it. Its a flaky electric pump, I give it a smuch leeway as possible.

Does the adapter work the same way for the WS filter?

 

[AH64ID]

Agree, I run 20-7-3 for that reason, with the first 2 being f/w seps.

The adapter is for the final filter, so your stuck with the BF1275 as your best option on the f/w sep side.

 

[STEVEBROOKS]

How does the P551313 (that's a Donaldson, right?) compare with the 1R0750 CAT filter?

Steve

 

[Freebore]

The 1R0750 and P551313 are very similar - Donaldson appears to continue using the micron rating numbers from the old rating system (before GM stopped making the AC fine test dust) and calls out 3 micron - it appears to be absolute or also known as 98. 7% efficient. Cat does not publish the data, but the 1R0750 is a cellulose media filter and all of the filters rated with the old system have been updated to the new ratings which state 4 or 4. 4 microns absolute / 98. 7% efficient. If you want the latest Cat Ultra High Efficiency filter then look at 416-1225 - same size as the 1R-0750, but uses synthetic media. The UHE filters provide the finest filtration - the 1R0750 is from the Advanced Filtration series.

 

[AH64ID]

Does the 416-1225 use a 1-14" thread?