Posting on the forums in a Vendors point of veiw.

[South Bend Clutch]

Face it, because of the involvement of venders and the superior quality of the members has made the TDR the Most popular DTD site in the world. The intelligent questions along with the demand for excellence has pushed the venders to provide superior products for your trucks. The smarter that you get forces us to tighten up the belt buckle and try harder to make our product better if it can be done. By sharing information without concerns of prying eyes is the best way to accomplish this. This is the perfect world and made the USA what it is today or should I say 25 years ago. Today has become a dog eat dog world, especially because it is a world market. It seems that if a company wants to become a player in the world market, ethics falls right out the window. (Bill Gates seems to come to mind) I know that I am guilty of telling all and it has bit me in the butt more than once. I will be the first to tell you what ever I know only to help the industry grow. I think this is a good thing and I am not afraid of competition. What I like about this site is the loyalty without prejudice (for the most part). If you feel that you were not treated fairly you will say so and on the other shoe if you are happy with the product/service you will say so. Face it, Most of what you buy for your trucks is not rocket science. Any company with a little smarts can simply buy your product and duplicate it. Now, does it become a price war? Maybe. I try my hardest to practice what I preach. I instill in my children as well as myself the values and ethics that enable you to look in the mirror and be proud. This might not make me monetarily rich but when I get to old to build another clutch I will be able to reflect back on my life and feel content.



My advice to all venders... do not be afraid of trade secrets (believe me we have three generations of them). Build the best product that you can and don't be afraid to make changes if you find a better way. We are not infallible, if you make a mistake admit it and do what it takes to rectify the problem. I believe that product and price is only 50% of the picture... . service is the other 50%. Treat people like you would like to be treated. Even if you are a large company go back to the basics and be your customers friend.



Back to the topic at hand. Venders should post away and keep emotions out of the picture, it NEVER works. And foremost, do not be afraid of competition; sell yourself as well as your product.



Life according to Peter.

 

[LSMITH]

Well said Peter, we appreciate your candor. SB Clutch rates highly on here because you and your staff have earned our respect. That opportunity is available to all vendors I think, some market segments are going to be tougher than others though.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Peter,

The fact that you are the 'customer's freind' is why I have a SBC Con FE being installed tomorrow. I thought $900 was steep for a clutch but I have never heard of anyone toasting a clutch that you didn't take care of. I have heard scores attest to your excellent products and the unequaled support of them.



Keep up the good work. I hope I'm not the one to find the upper limit of the SBC Clutch. I want the power not the headache.



Thanks,

Mark Kendrick

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Peter I couldnt agree with you more.



The only thing i dis-agree with is, that as a vendor you do have to be afraid to post if the point you are trying to make may offend the moderators or other vendors. Truth is really of no concequence, even if you know what is being promoted is not the truth. There is no room for debate if your point gets emotional even if it is the truth and provable.



If you care about the people you are talking to you will speak with emotion. If your conversation was soley monetary and sales oriented there would be no need for emotion. Discussion and questions would certainly be un welcome.



As i understood it, open forum discussions were just that, not an extension of an advertisment. In advertisments in the magazine we pay to say whatever we want without contridiction.



However on the discussion forum there are going to be questions, if a vendor is not prepared to answer he should never get involved in the first place.



I personally feel that i dont need the moderators to intervene and protect me as a vendor when a discussion gets heated, nor will i complain to a moderator behind the scenes to act on my behalf. If i make a statement that is untrue or i am lying, the other vendors or customers should be able to challenge me. After all is that not what this fourm was started out to do, to help educate and protect its members not the advertisors.



It is not that i dont feel for Robert as he is trying to balance the advertisors needs vs the general membership needs. However this site had valadity because everthing was able to be discussed openly.



Peter , isnt what you typed how you felt. Doesnt that reflect your emotions?

 

[Dan_69GTX]

Peter,



I spoke to you yesterday about my truck and clutch. After you told me I don't need a clutch yet and to save my money until I do... well... as the terminator said... . I'll be back... to buy a clutch when I need one.



Thanks for the advice and technical explaination!



Dan

 

[Sled Puller]

Peter,

Excellent post, but a bit in fantasyland



Keep in mind that there is RACING involved out here, which means vendors are looking for an advantage over the other guy.



We don't want an even playing field with everybody sharing information, watch NASCAR, if you want that.



Everybody sharing info would lead to price fixing, eh New Jersey?

Which would lead to the consumer being ripped.



I want to see the vendors being as competitive as the consumer.



No bashing other products, but I want to hear WHY YOURS IS BETTER THAN HIS.



Gene

 

[boonsur]

Wanna know how good this website is, try comparing it to others, particularly NEONS.org. I sold the truck & bought a Neon (to suffice until the new trucks are out & established, and to save money). After viewing that website, I have come to the realization that I'm on-my-own when it comes to technical questions about my new car.



The wealth of information/experts on this website is phenominal. I can't stand to see anything arise, that would drive this talent away!!!



Thanks again guys for your support & (personal) time.

 

[Batman]

I wonder why South Bend and DTT have customer loyalty.



Peter and Bill, well said, and thank you for all of your informative discussions. I, for one, have learned much from what I have read.



Keep up the great work!

 

[redneckdr]

TDR

it's pretty rare after 6+ months of "addiction" to TDR, that i sign on, that i don't learn something new. at least part of the new info comes from the vendor's input. i'm not sure what prompted you to post, peter, but i sure hope the vendors don't stop bringing their points of view to the table. we all learn, and can consume more effectively. information is power. i know i was considering various changes to my new goat, that i decided after reading the TDR weren't going to get me where i wanted to go--sometimes dangerous for the truck, others, just more costly and needlesly for the truck. the amount of info on here is phenomenal, and SOME OF IT IS RIGHT!!!!

 

[South Bend Clutch]

Bill,



I am glad that you replied to this thread. You are right, it is easy to take the two words of emotion and concern and couple them together. If you truly care as a vender about your customer it will come out in emotion. Bill, you have only shown to your customers and me your concern for their needs with unequaled customer support. I don't think that there would be enough time in a month to read the positive remarks in this forum directed at you and your company. CLAP CLAP



I would like to rephrase my word of emotion to the word of ANGER!

Anger on a vendor’s part should be kept behind the scenes.





Peter

 

[TKilgore]

Well said Peter

Makes me want to buy a clutch but I would have to hang it on the wall so until I get a manual trans, I'll stick with Bill (da man).



hummmm South Bend clutch hooked to a DTT TC. Now thats what I would call lock up.



Tom

 

[RustyJC]

Re: Well said Peter

Originally posted by TKilgore



hummmm South Bend clutch hooked to a DTT TC. Now thats what I would call lock up.

Does anybody besides me remember the old drag racing "ClutchFlite" transmissions - the 727 automatic with a clutch in front of it?



(I know - off topic! My bad!! )



Rusty

 

[South Bend Clutch]

Gene,



Fantasy land? Yes, you are probably right but wouldn't it be nice.



Take your double disc solid hub clutch design that you are using for example. At what customer’s expense do you provide parts. Building a double disc slipper clutch with centrifugal weights is not rocket science. I have been building and designing clutches my whole life with my father before me and his father before him. Slapping a rigged double disc in your diesel is the easy part. Now to build one that will not ruin your transmission is the hard part. Anyone that understands your diesel trucks in the clutch business knows that locking up the input shaft will have a direct affect on your transmission. I am not in the business of ruining your truck to make a buck. I am however working very hard on designing a double disc clutch with floating hubs. (Oops trade secret) LOL. Until I perfect it I feel it is my responsibility not to just do whatever it takes to please the sled pullers without worry of what it will do down the road.



Peter

 

[DHRA]

Trade secret?

Since when does a wet dream in Tulare become a trade secret?

:-laf

 

[redneckdr]

this thread

peter, i just read the thread that prompted you to post this thread. i'm i've been pretty busy. haven't been getting in my usual TDR time. anyway, i hope you vendors keep posting to help those of us out who are trying to make informed decisions about mods for our trucks.

 

[dmurdock]

Hey TKilgore, buy a clutch from Peter and send it to me... the clutch will write you letters once a month telling you how your contribution improved it's life



As far as peter and bill go... just do a search on the forums (search by member name and use their names)... read what they have to say and you will understand what their customer's already know.



If I ever need a sled pulled, I'll call Santa

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by Bill Kondolay

Peter I couldnt agree with you more.



The only thing i dis-agree with is, that as a vendor you do have to be afraid to post if the point you are trying to make may offend the moderators or other vendors. Truth is really of no concequence, even if you know what is being promoted is not the truth. There is no room for debate if your point gets emotional even if it is the truth and provable.



If you care about the people you are talking to you will speak with emotion. If your conversation was soley monetary and sales oriented there would be no need for emotion. Discussion and questions would certainly be un welcome.



As i understood it, open forum discussions were just that, not an extension of an advertisment. In advertisments in the magazine we pay to say whatever we want without contridiction.



However on the discussion forum there are going to be questions, if a vendor is not prepared to answer he should never get involved in the first place.



I personally feel that i dont need the moderators to intervene and protect me as a vendor when a discussion gets heated, nor will i complain to a moderator behind the scenes to act on my behalf. If i make a statement that is untrue or i am lying, the other vendors or customers should be able to challenge me. After all is that not what this fourm was started out to do, to help educate and protect its members not the advertisors.



It is not that i dont feel for Robert as he is trying to balance the advertisors needs vs the general membership needs. However this site had valadity because everthing was able to be discussed openly.



Peter , isnt what you typed how you felt. Doesnt that reflect your emotions?

I am compelled to point this out... That it's not about us moderators being "offended". I don't believe I have ever been offended, except by some crudities posted that were summarily deleted. To be blunt, we (moderators) don't make up the rules. We're just asked to try to make them happen. Personally, if you read my posts, you know that I am passionate about certain topics and ideas as well, but I do try to avoid making public pronouncements about the character of others here. Especially if it's because we disagree.



Bill, you seemed to imply that to us as moderators, "truth doesn't matter", but that's not quite the case. Truth does matter, it matters immensely, which is why we wish to keep vendors posting. As in all things, if we keep things factual and logical, and avoid making it personal, truth will win. I have faith that the vast majority of readers have enough common sense to be able to determine who's right, who's wrong, and if someone is dodging an issue or not. Can you imagine your surprise, if you called up the local paper and said "I'd like to buy some space in your business directory" and they responded "Sure, no problem, but you'll have to go in the 'advertisers we don't approve of' directory, because we've picked the best already and you're not it. " I suspect you'd hang up the phone say something like "How the heck do they know? What do newspaper people know about transmission shops?"



Like it or not, TDR IS a business, it is supported very much by advertising, like the newspaper. As such, unless someone is blatantly crooked or would taint the publication by advertising in it, all are welcome. And being part of this, I'm not in the position of picking and arguing one side of a sponsor's disagreement. I only ask that when any vendor / supplier / advertiser communicates through the forum I've volunteered to be in charge of, that it be professional, reasonably polite, and that it not be able to be construed as inflamatory to someone else. And I do not believe that's unreasonable to ask.



Newspapers don't allow certain things in their "letters to the editor" page, and TDR has asked for certain standards of conduct on their public forums. I may or may not agree with every detail of the guidelines, but I do believe it is both fitting and proper to insist that those who use it follow them.

 

[dmurdock]

Originally posted by Power Wagon

... Like it or not, TDR IS a business, it is supported very much by advertising, like the newspaper. ...

This is so very true.



However, the TDR is also supported by the immense number of members it has, whom are the sole reason the TDR attracts advertisers in the first place.



I understand some level of censorship is deemed necessary by the powers that be, but vendors are members too, and deserve the same privileges.



PW, I don't think anyone who has been around here for a while would ever question your character or commitment to this site. I don't have a problem with any of the moderators, it's a thankless job and you just follow the rules. On the other hand, I do have a problem with what I perceive to be a slow and steady "tightening of the noose" regarding what is and what is not allowed in someone's post. I would personally prefer the forums be an electronic version of BS session at a get together, not an opinion of the newspaper.



Basically, I just do not want to see the level of censorship reach such a level that the honest and yes sometimes passionate exchange of opinions is not allowed.



If any member, including vendors, are not "passionate" about their products, then they don't belong here. "Passion" for a "Truck" is what the TDR is all about..... isn't it?

 

[HeberRam]

Vendors watch-out!!!

Peter and the rest of you after-market vendors better watch-out... I'll be pushing my truck to the limit this year. and I expect you guys to come up with new products to keep my truck together!!! If you don't I will have to give up "bombing", save my money for retirement, and buy a used Ford. . :{ :{

 

[drawson]

Peter, Your products are great and your customer service even better!!!!! Keep on doing what you do and we'll follow you forever.



HebeRam, Used Ford ROFLMAOOo.