Power Loss Challenge

[RMowry]

I have a good one for you experts on the forum. Sorry for the long post but I figure the more information you have to go by, the better.



2003 Ram 3500, 5. 9 CTD, 47RE trans, 148,000 km (90,000 miles).

When I bought the truck Apr 2006 it had trouble maintaining 100kph (60 mph) on level pulling 14,000 lb 5th wheel RV. When I returned home I tried the trial chip from BullyDog. The truck ran great even after the chip trial ran out. We travelled 20,000km (12,000 miles) across Canada summer of 2006 returning end of Oct, no problem with power. Over the winter I noticed that the truck was losing power. I thought it may have been the winter fuel or the short trips. The power has not returned during the summer, if anything there is even less power.



I have taken it to the dealers and all they do is charge me with no changes. I took it to one diesel shop and he changed the intank fuel pump back to the out of tank pump. No change. They were unable to discover the problem. I have now taken it to another diesel shop. They have tested the injectors, within spec. There are no codes. He noticed that there was about 28 lbs of boost so he thought the MAP(?) was causing it to defuel. They are now taking the turbo off to see if the wastegate is sticking to cause this to happen, no word yet. Dodge dealer says there is enough preasure going to the injectors. I have not had the valves adjusted, would this make much of a difference on power? The truck starts well so we feel the compression is good. I have not changed the fuel filter. Fuel mileage is about 17 to 20 mpg. EGTs are around 5 - 600 normal driving, may go to 8-900 with heavy foot.



I had bought the BullyDog PMT as in stock mode the truck had trouble pulling the trailer. With the PMT the tow mode does add some power, however the performance and extreme modes have no additional power. There is no smoke what so ever on any of the settings.



Hope you guys can help.

Richard

 

[TWhetten]

I have the same truck except I have the six speed, Mine was slowly losing power so I capped the fuel rail and it perked right back up. I also blocked the wastgate and picked up 2 pounds of boost and my egts went down. Mine is not chipped though. just my two cents.

 

[RDyson]

I would definetly change the fuel filter. I change mine every 10k.

If the valves have not been adjusted, I'd try that also.

A stuck wastegate making high boost could explain why you have no smoke.



Let us know what fixes it.



Randy

 

[MMeier]

Sounds like the fuel filter has a bunch of miles on it... CHANGE IT!!!! Change mine every 10-12k miles.

 

[bmoeller]

Fuel filter should have been the FIRST THING checked. Some places are sure good at taking your money. Need to check the easy and cheap stuff first.

 

[RMowry]

Thanks for the replies. The turbo/wastegate came back within spec. I am replacing the fuel filter and looking into adjusting the valves. Will keep you posted. I will ask about capping the fuel rail.



Thanks

Richard

 

[JCleary]

I had bought the BullyDog PMT as in stock mode the truck had trouble pulling the trailer. With the PMT the tow mode does add some power, however the performance and extreme modes have no additional power. There is no smoke what so ever on any of the settings.



Hope you guys can help.

Richard

I had the same experience with Bully Dog on my '03. Less than 10hp between the settings, Tow to Extreme. On the dyno, 66hp total for $550. Whoopeee!



It did make the truck much more drivable with a big turbo, though.



How are your EGT's?

 

[TAbbott]

Have them check the TPS (throttle position sensor) It's possible you aren't getting a full throttle signal to the ecm. No smoke even between shifts if you try to make smoke? That's a lack of fuel for sure... . and the egt's seem low to me. One thing you haven't told us: Is that an SO engine? California spec w/only 235 hp stock? If so and if everything else checks out as OK, I'd suggest a Smarty... .

 

[DPKetchum]

You also noted its got the 47re auto trans. If it is a 47RE its also the LOW HORSE engine. That and if its got 3. 73 gears it might not pull 14,000lbs with any zip. Change the FUEL FILTER and fill out your sig.

 

[RMowry]

I found out that it is the 250HP version. When I travelled across Canada last year I had gobs of power without the PMT chip. To test the gas mileage at various speeds I even ran the truck at 90MPH for a full tank (6MPG) with the 14,000 lb trailer. When I picked up the trailer from storage this year it got bogged down on a slight hill without the PMT because the temp went too high and the PMT defueled. I have since disabled that feature and watch the gages myself. I will be picking up the truck this week to conferm the EGTs and will post when I get the numbers.



The fuel filter is getting changed now. I had also tried the Triple Dog and there was no change from the PMT, no smoke, no multi step power. The wastegate checked out fine. I am actually trying to get the truck to run as it did last year on our trip without the chip. I don't have any faith with the dealer. I don't think they would be able to figure this out. I am thinking of taking it to a Cummins dealer.



Thanks for your posts

Richard

 

[RMowry]

Still learning to use the forum.



Silver 2003 Dodge Laramie Quad Cab 3500 4x4

Standard CTD @ 250 hp

47RE, 3. 73 gears. MBPR four inch exhaust

Autometer trans temp and EGT gage on pillar mount

Bullydog PMT

Firestone Airbags

Rolling bed cover

Sprayed Bed Liner

Removed AFE air intake, Banks exhaust brake

 

[SBeretz]

Man, that is a sweet looking rig, and even with 14K lbs, and stock power, it should still pull decent.

 

[Semicrazy]

When I first got my used 03, I thought the performance was normal.



Then I installed gauges not to long afterwards a saw that my fuel pressure would drop to 0 on wide open throttle. I have no idea how many miles were on this old filter.



I quickly changed the fuel filter and it felt like a completely different truck. I have not had any problems since. I change the fuel filter every other oil change (every 10K miles), same as with my old trucks. Anytime even with my old trucks when I sensed a performance decrease I would change the fuel filter first thing.

 

[Tomeygun]

I found out that it is the 250HP version.

Thats the engine I have - not the CA version, just the standard output...

199. 6 stock rear wheel HP... as you can see from other with SO's - they usually respond well to more fuel.

 

[RMowry]

The fuel seems to be the problem. With the PMT I am told that there should be smoke on the higher settings but there is none. With the setting on tow I do get an increase in power from the stock mode, however the performance and extreme modes do not give any additional power. In my test I time how long it takes to accelerate from a stop to shift out of 3rd at about 100kph (62mph). Stock - 17 sec, tow - 12 sec, performance - 12 sec, extreme - 12 sec. There is no wheel spin. I am told that it is getting about 11psi of fuel pressure. I will be putting it on a dyno early next week. As Tomeygun says Cummins says I should be getting about 200HP at the wheels.

 

[RMowry]

Not to flog a dead house but just to update the forum.



I Got the truck out of the shop and I now know what is NOT causing the power loss.



Fuel pressure 10 psi (should be around 18psi??)

Injector leak down test #1/38 #2/42 #3/46 #4/40 #5/42 #6/44 ml/min

Noticed higher than average boost, check boost at 24psi during acceleration.

Check wastegate actuator operation and wastgate seat, both ok.

Changed fuel filter.

No change in power.

BIG BILL



I am taking the truck to be dynoed tommorrow (31 Oct).

I found a shop that is willing to be challenged by guaranting to find the problem (I hope).



Any more ideas would be appreciated.



Thanks

 

[DPKetchum]

Anything odd with the 47re. Not starting off in first gear? Real loose torque convertor? Exhaust brake fully open. Does it drive ok not pulling that 14k behind you?

 

[Mobius1]

Fuel pressure 10 psi (should be around 18psi??)

I have about 7. 5 psi at idle. I ahve never seen above 10 even on a fresh fuel filter. 18psi seems pretty high. Do you have an aftermarken pusher pump. IF you are getting that much fuel, I would not worry about it. If sounds like it is transmission related. Everything else sounds about right to me.

 

[RMowry]

It is an aftermarket inline fuel pump and the shop that put it in said it should be around 18psi. I am installing a fuel pressure gage. I have had the transmission rebuilt and beefed up but I had similar symptoms when I bought the truck. I tried the BD 5 hour trial and the truck was fine for the summer 2006.



I am getting it dynoed tomorrow. If it is around 200HP, the power loss is only in my mind. Otherwise the mystery continues.



Thanks

 

[Mikie12]

Rich; The suspence has me on the edge of my seat-have you got your dyno results yet???