Archived Power steering and brake failure!

[tmacc]

When I came out to the truck this morning, there was a puddle of p/s fluid on my nice new asphalt drive. Argh!! After futher investigation, I found that the pittman shaft seal has apparently failed. I filled up the pump and started the truck, but I can not turn the steering wheel and I have no brakes. Any suggestion for a temp. fix so I can drive it? I had to rent a car in the mean time. The steering box is a re-man from EE. I'm a little disappointed that it only lasted 25K Less that year. It started leaking a little last week and I didn't have time to look at it. I'm paying for that now though.

Thank for any assistance you can give me.

Tom

cell 301-573-5792

 

[dpuckett]

With your power steering and brakes heading south at once, makes me think vacuum pump may have gone south for the winter. Not sure of particulars on the newer trucks, but my vacuum pump crapped out on me 3 mi from home- came to the end of hte blacktop and almost had to get the seat steam cleaned , had to stand on the pedal to get it to stop.



Vacuum is the first thing I'd check. I know the brakes are set up differently from mine, but I cant think of anything else right now.



Daniel

 

[tmacc]

Daniel, Thanks for the reply. I did a seach yesterday and the vacuum pump or the brake accumulator may be the problem. Now all I need to know is how to test for the problem. The p/s fluid that I put in yesterday has not leaked out. Not sure what that means. ... ... . Now, I was checking the shop manual and it referenced that the heater controls are operated by vacuum presssure. All of the controls seem to be working, so doesn't that mean the v/p is working?

Tom

 

[tmacc]

Just check the vacuum pressure and it's 27 Hg. Manual says 25 Hg. minimum, so I'm fairly sure the vac pump is OK. Either p/s pump or brake accumulator is my guess now.

 

[bighammer]

Is it possible that you have hydroboost master cylinder instaed of the vaccuum assist? I'm not sure when they changed, but the power steering hydraulics run run both brakes and steering I think, and it sounds like it's consistent with the puddle on the ground.

 

[Moterhead]

My 98. 5 24v had hydroboost, so it's safe to assume that your '01 has it. Power steering and power brakes both work off the PS pump.

 

[dpuckett]

Originally posted by Moterhead

... . Power steering and power brakes both work off the PS pump.

See, told you I didnt know it all. Seriously, though, I'd check the lines and fittings for leaks, since it isnt vac pump related. Is the P/S fluid foaming? That can cause problems as well. How about getting the system bled? You mentioned that you had filled it up and it hadnt leaked any more out since. Could have some air trapped somewhere?



Daniel

 

[bmoeller]

They went to the Hydra-boost in '97. Could have air in the system.

 

[Moterhead]

In one way, going to the hydroboost was a real blessing. Made changing the fuel filter something that a normal human could actually do! The old vacuum brake booster made fuel filter changing really tough!!

 

[tmacc]

Yes, It's hydroboost. Member, Jeff Knight suggested the front wheels of the ground, turn the steering wheel lock to lock to bleed it. That's next. Thanks again everyone.

Tom

 

[SS]

Tom,



Same thing happened to me - had to add fluid and turn steering wheel to bleed as you suggest (a little RPM helped too). I believe that the acccumulator burst, and the compressed nitrogen forced fluid out of the p/s pump. After you bleed the system, check it according to the manual: start the truck, turn the wheel back and forth, turn it off, leave it sit for one hour, and come back to check for 3 good brake pedal applications. I knew mine was shot after rolling 2 mph in a BIG parking lot, shutting the key off, and trying the brakes - HARD immediately. Dealer kept telling me the brakes don't work when the engine is off, even after showing them the manual! Don't let this go. Brakes work fine with engine running, but not so much in an emergency.

 

[tmacc]

DTW,

Well, it's a mute point now. Tried the lock-to-lock thing. No go. PS fluid started coming out of the fill. It never got easier to turn. No foaming BTW. I didn't think to try reving the engine though. However, I did get the truck situated so a rollback can get it tomorrow. Funny, you should mention the burst nitrogen in the accumulator. That's what I figured might have happened Fri. night. That thing was leaking like a sieve. Hard to beleive that it went from 3-4 drips over night to complete drain w/o a little assistance, but who knows? I hope it's the p/s pump. It's got to be cheaper than a accumulator. The pittman shaft seal definitely needs to be replaced. No leaks anyplace else that I can see. Thank for your suggestions. FWIW Rental cars s#ck!

Tom

 

[RBallard]

This happened three times to me (no brakes or steering and fluid coming out of the reservoir). I ended up buying Royal Purple Synthetic PS fluid and used a turkey baster to remove the old fluid. I repeated the process 3-4 times in an attempt to remove all of the fluid. So far, knock on wood, I haven't had a problem since.



When I would start the truck and notice the problem, it seemed to go away once I hit about 1500 rpms.



Bob

 

[tmacc]

*UPDATE* FWIW

Well, the pittman shaft bearing got so bad that the pittman shaft elongated the seal and that's why all of the fluid leaked out. The box or the pump airlocked and that is why I couldn't get the wheel to turn. Again a mute point, since the fluid would have leaked out pretty darn quick anyway. The local mechanic that I use is replacing the bearing and shaft as well as the seal. Of course this happened just before T-giving and the parts won't get here till early this week. Still not all here as of this morning. Thankfully, a friend of mine loaned me his van to use while the CTD is in the shop. Still a PITA. These gas engines are gutless.

 

[David_VT]

My 99 is in the shop now for total hydraulic failure. .



I got the call a few minutes ago that the potential bill just went from $1200 to more than $2200 as the gear inside the non-repairable vacuum pump that supplies power to the power steering pump is broken. Mind you the vacuum pump works fine but can no longer feed rotational power on to the powersteering pump that powers both the brakes and steering...



So:

steering gear box (leaked )

power steering pump (seized)

vacuum pump shaft that feeds power to the power steering pump tried to rotate on the mighty cummins power (no belts here folks!)

vacuum pump shaft gear(sheared)



Moral of the story:

Look under your truck often for steering gear box leaks and remember that VP44 vs pump is not the only potential expensive problem on our trucks. .



==========

I just found a 24V engine and might steal what I need and part it out rather than pay DC for another set of new parts for mine...

 

[tmacc]

David,

Man that really s*cks. I feel lucky that I only had to pay about $390. The darn thing still leaks though. From between the adjuster screw and the lock nut. Apparently the nyloc nut has worn out. ... ... ... Dave FWIW Enetrprise Engine has rebuilt steering boxes for less than half of what DC wants. I will say that I only got abotut 35K out of it before the bearing went. The DSS bracket is something I think I'm going to invest in. Again, sorry for your bad luck.

 

[jrobinson2]

I think there should be an o-ring or sealing washer under the nut.

Jared

 

[tmacc]

Originally posted by jrobinson2

I think there should be an o-ring or sealing washer under the nut.

Well, you would think that, but according to the exploded diagram, there is none. We're thinking that the nylon part of the nyloc nut is the seal. Apparently it's worn enough to allow ps fluid to leak around the threads. An o-ring or sealing washer wouldn't help in this case. This is a reman box, so who know how many miles are on it.

Tom