Attention: TDR Forum Junkies One word..... YES!!!
Guys,
I know I was the one who kinda got the group purchase together and I would like to shine some light on these injectors.
First, the early trucks with nonintercolled engines have a different head with larger holes(9mm and some, incvluding mine have been known to crack even on stock trucks). The intercolled trucks(mid year 91-93) have 7mm holes in the head. This was done by Cummins to prevent cracking between the injector bore and the exhaust valve seat.
The injectors in the pre91 trucks were better than the later injectors. Basically the nonintercooled trucks were stronger than the intercooled trucks when both are stock. The turbos were smaller and the injectors gave more fuel thus more power.
Back to the Power Wagon issue. These injectors are great for intercooled engines (mid 91-93). But for the "original powerhouses" they will at best add 3-5 psi of boost and minimal power gains. I know this from personal experience.
Allow me to ellaborate:
My truck 'Ol Blue (89 D250) ran great, but this spring the head cracked. I had all the gauges etc. nver ran it hot, so I was not sure why until I contacted Cummins and they explained the whole 7mm-9mm head thing to me. Anyway I put it back with a new head and new injectors for this head. The truck was down on power after this swap, but the guy at a reputable shop told me I'd probably lose power with the stock 7mm injectors. I was not very happy, so I found out about the power wagon injectors and bought a set. After all the work I lost 2psi of boost and was not happy at all. Luckily the shop I bought them at took them back and they were just as confused as I was as to why I lost power. I was unhappy, but at the same time I recieved mine I also got a set for a friend of mine who has a 93 and they really helped his truck, he can't believe the power gains. I was skeptical about giving them to him and when I did I did not tell him that I did not like mine (I did not want to bias his results). I rode in his truck before and after and it really helped it alot. So I was in a search to find out why they did not work in my application. It seems the injectors I got for my truck when the head cracked (before the power wagon injectors) were made to be close to the power level of the 89-91 preintercooled trucks. They were not as powerful as the original ones but they were slightly better than the PW's (2psi more).
My truck runs better than ever now, I have a set of high hp injectors. I was skeptical till I installed them and left all other pump adjustments the same. On the first test drive I pulled out like normal and let her warm up. The next time I pulled out and then when I got into 3rd gear I floored it, it blew black smoke straight out the pipe about 3ft from the truck, then I noticed some white smoke, at first I was scared, but then I relaized it was the tires going up in smoke!!!! I drove for a while and then I was going down the road, 4 lane in town, at about 45 mph. I thought I'd see how it accelerated in 4th gear. I mashed it to the floor and it started spinning the rear tires again!!!! Tese injectors probably add 3 times the power as the PW's, but they create heat also. I am getting ready to adjust the timing on my pump to help combat the heat problem. For now I have set the fuel delivery screw on the pump back to stock settings and still get 30 psi on the gage and heat is not bad, truck runs like the wind. For comparison, a friend of mine has a '99 PSD with a 70 hp superchip and a 6 speed and I can blow it away loaded or empty. Please contact me if I cna help any of you on deciding which injector is right for you.
If I were going to hop up a pre 91. 5 truck I would definitely spend the money for an intercooler. The intercooler itself does not add any power, but by lowering intake temps it keep sthe EGT's from skyrocketing.
I hope this helps shine some light on all the questions about the Power Wagon injectors. I think the most common misconception is that all the first generation trucks are the same. They are not. I do not think many people are hopping up the pre 91. 5 trucks so there is not alot of info on them. Everyone assumes if it is good for the 91. 5-93 then it is good for the 89-91. 5. This is not so. Straight out of the box, the pre91. 5 trucks had more power. Intercool one and adjust the pump and it will out run the later 91. 5-93 trucks.
Sorry to ramble, but I wanted to clear the air a little bit. I know several of you with the 91. 5-93 trucks have bought the PW injectors and they have helped you. I am glad, but I do not want to mislead the other part of the first gen. team.
later
Don Peters
------------------
Ol' Blue: 1989 D 250 Ice blue met. 5 spd 3. 54, 150,000, Banks stage III powerpack, 3. 5" straight exhaust, pump adjustments, "Ol' blue special" injectors.
1999 3500 4x4 Chassis cab Emerald green ISB 5 spd 4. 10 K&N Filter straight exhaust 9 ft flatbed WARN fenderflares,Let, 275hp injectors installed, boost and pyro gages, VA plug'n power Love it, Jacobs E brake
May buy another one in 2009!!
[This message has been edited by Big Don (edited 12-05-2000). ]
Guys,
I know I was the one who kinda got the group purchase together and I would like to shine some light on these injectors.
First, the early trucks with nonintercolled engines have a different head with larger holes(9mm and some, incvluding mine have been known to crack even on stock trucks). The intercolled trucks(mid year 91-93) have 7mm holes in the head. This was done by Cummins to prevent cracking between the injector bore and the exhaust valve seat.
The injectors in the pre91 trucks were better than the later injectors. Basically the nonintercooled trucks were stronger than the intercooled trucks when both are stock. The turbos were smaller and the injectors gave more fuel thus more power.
Back to the Power Wagon issue. These injectors are great for intercooled engines (mid 91-93). But for the "original powerhouses" they will at best add 3-5 psi of boost and minimal power gains. I know this from personal experience.
Allow me to ellaborate:
My truck 'Ol Blue (89 D250) ran great, but this spring the head cracked. I had all the gauges etc. nver ran it hot, so I was not sure why until I contacted Cummins and they explained the whole 7mm-9mm head thing to me. Anyway I put it back with a new head and new injectors for this head. The truck was down on power after this swap, but the guy at a reputable shop told me I'd probably lose power with the stock 7mm injectors. I was not very happy, so I found out about the power wagon injectors and bought a set. After all the work I lost 2psi of boost and was not happy at all. Luckily the shop I bought them at took them back and they were just as confused as I was as to why I lost power. I was unhappy, but at the same time I recieved mine I also got a set for a friend of mine who has a 93 and they really helped his truck, he can't believe the power gains. I was skeptical about giving them to him and when I did I did not tell him that I did not like mine (I did not want to bias his results). I rode in his truck before and after and it really helped it alot. So I was in a search to find out why they did not work in my application. It seems the injectors I got for my truck when the head cracked (before the power wagon injectors) were made to be close to the power level of the 89-91 preintercooled trucks. They were not as powerful as the original ones but they were slightly better than the PW's (2psi more).
My truck runs better than ever now, I have a set of high hp injectors. I was skeptical till I installed them and left all other pump adjustments the same. On the first test drive I pulled out like normal and let her warm up. The next time I pulled out and then when I got into 3rd gear I floored it, it blew black smoke straight out the pipe about 3ft from the truck, then I noticed some white smoke, at first I was scared, but then I relaized it was the tires going up in smoke!!!! I drove for a while and then I was going down the road, 4 lane in town, at about 45 mph. I thought I'd see how it accelerated in 4th gear. I mashed it to the floor and it started spinning the rear tires again!!!! Tese injectors probably add 3 times the power as the PW's, but they create heat also. I am getting ready to adjust the timing on my pump to help combat the heat problem. For now I have set the fuel delivery screw on the pump back to stock settings and still get 30 psi on the gage and heat is not bad, truck runs like the wind. For comparison, a friend of mine has a '99 PSD with a 70 hp superchip and a 6 speed and I can blow it away loaded or empty. Please contact me if I cna help any of you on deciding which injector is right for you.
If I were going to hop up a pre 91. 5 truck I would definitely spend the money for an intercooler. The intercooler itself does not add any power, but by lowering intake temps it keep sthe EGT's from skyrocketing.
I hope this helps shine some light on all the questions about the Power Wagon injectors. I think the most common misconception is that all the first generation trucks are the same. They are not. I do not think many people are hopping up the pre 91. 5 trucks so there is not alot of info on them. Everyone assumes if it is good for the 91. 5-93 then it is good for the 89-91. 5. This is not so. Straight out of the box, the pre91. 5 trucks had more power. Intercool one and adjust the pump and it will out run the later 91. 5-93 trucks.
Sorry to ramble, but I wanted to clear the air a little bit. I know several of you with the 91. 5-93 trucks have bought the PW injectors and they have helped you. I am glad, but I do not want to mislead the other part of the first gen. team.
later
Don Peters
------------------
Ol' Blue: 1989 D 250 Ice blue met. 5 spd 3. 54, 150,000, Banks stage III powerpack, 3. 5" straight exhaust, pump adjustments, "Ol' blue special" injectors.
1999 3500 4x4 Chassis cab Emerald green ISB 5 spd 4. 10 K&N Filter straight exhaust 9 ft flatbed WARN fenderflares,Let, 275hp injectors installed, boost and pyro gages, VA plug'n power Love it, Jacobs E brake
May buy another one in 2009!!
[This message has been edited by Big Don (edited 12-05-2000). ]
. 4:10 gears, limited slip rear end, 205 transfer case, 16" Goodyear GSA Wranglers and LE Package and a Sony CD Stereo. A one of a kind truck(Wish Dodge would build a new Crew Cab in 1 ton. Last year for the Crew Cab was 1985)If you want to know why I did all of this, 2 kids, one on the way and I can't stand Ford and Chevy. Kyle Hoover ,Fruitport, MI
