Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Pre-64 Model 70 rebarrel...???

[Dl5treez]

Long story short, I scored a pre-64 Model 70 in 300 Win Mag today for a pretty cheap price...



There are reasons for that, but the biggest and worst is due to the rather crude installation of the ugliest muzzle brake I've personally ever seen. The stock is also long gone from being collectible--previous owner sanded off all the finish and used linseed oil on it.





The rifle is a shooter, the previous owner shot an elk with it in eastern Washington yesterday actually..... he wanted something in . 338 and I wanted a pre-64 action to build on, so we know how that all works.



So anyways, I'd like to make something fun out of this, and although I really like the 300 Win Mag, I don't like the ruined factory barrel.



Options:



1. Cut the threads off, have a target crown put on, and have a 23 1/4" barrel that ends right at the front sight.



2. Re barrel with another 300 Win Mag barrel.



3. Leave it alone and buy good ear plugs.



4. Ditch everything but the action and build something "cool"... .



I don't have any pictures but can take a few if anyone wants to see what we're starting with here.





Cheers,



Dan

 

[BHanna]

How well does it shoot? If it shoots really well, I'd leave it alone. If not, build it the way you want it.

 

[GHarman]

Dan, The pre-64 model 70 is a piece of cake to rebarrel. They are easy to tune and have a smooth action. Muzzle brakes are very noisy! I dont know which one is being used on your rifle, but they do work especially well with large capacity cases, IE; lots of powder for the bore size.

If the rifle shoots accurately with tight groups (that means the Brake was properly installed); (IMHO) #1 replace the stock with a McMillan fiberglass and properly bed it. Strip and refinish the old wood stock (with Tung Oil) and keep for a show and tell.

#2. If you desire to rebarrel it, use a quality barrel from a maker like Kreiger, Bartlien, Lilja, or Schneider. These folks make quality barrels that often appear on the equipment lists of match winners. Use a reputable gunsmith for the installation. If you do have it rebarreled, you can also change cartridges (I wouldn't),to, for instance the 7MM Remington Magnum or . 338 winchester Magnum without major magazine alterations. However,the RUM series of Cartridges require major action feed rails alteration and magazine workover and lengthening of the well and replacement of the box and follower (this is permanent). Thats a conversion that I would not do!

If it was mine! I would do #1 first! Check out the accuracy and grouping ability. If there are jacket smears on the Brake, I'd yank it! The . 300 Winchester magnum needs at least a 26" barrel. Yes It will still launch a bullet from a shorter tube, but not as efficiently (as fast) as the longer barrel. If you rebarrel it, keep the same chambering and use a match grade barrel and the McMillan stock, properly bedded (dont do a dry drop-in)! You will have a real shooter! GregH



PS, Some M-70 WinchesterSporting rifles really like a little pressure between the forend tip and the barrel. A pressure pad, if you will! You can experiment with that as you check out your rifle. Wood stocks will not maintain a consistant bedding because they swell and shrink as the humidity changes.

 

[The patriot]

How well does it shoot? If it shoots really well, I'd leave it alone. If not, build it the way you want it.

+1.

If it dont shoot well, I'd chop it off & recrown it.

If it still dont shoot, then either dump $$$ into it, or sell.

To me this is the most economical path to take.

 

[GHarman]

Thread cap

Another thought occurred to me! If the machining for the brake was properly done and you still decide to remove the brake. You do not need to cut the barrel back, unless there are accuracy issues. A threaded cap, that screws onto the brake threads is all that really needs to be done. The proper muzzle preparation for a brake includes a crown. Most recrowns are completed with the barrel still on the action. Not the most precise method of cutting a crown. I would not shorten the barrel unless there was damage to the bore at the muzzle. GregH

 

[Dl5treez]

It shoots pretty well... . it's no sub-MOA target rifle in my hands but it has been a one shot killer of elk for as long as I can remember it. It belonged to a good family friend who actually bought it new in 1962... ... ... . so it's a one-owner all original pre-64 that has been used, modified, and has zero collector value left. :-laf Go figure...


I shot it this early evening with a Leupold Vari-X II 3x9x40 and was hitting hotel shampoo bottles at 158 yards (rangefinder), which is all the further I can go out back behind the shop with a target.....

The thing is just louder than the bejezus... .

The thread cap is probably the way to go... . I was just thinkin' of making something fun... . fancy barrel, fancy stock, fancy coating, all that jazz, but didn't really know where to start with all that.

 

[GHarman]

What do you want to do? I can talk you through the steps. Provide sources of materials and some guidance. Its like Diesel Trucks. You can leave it alone and get by or you can wring the very last drop of performance out of it. M-70's have been U. S. Military Sniper rifles, in the Vietnam War, replaced by the Remington-700/M-40; etc. for the USMC. While the M-70 is no longer a consideration for the Military, it is still a fine basis for a hunting piece. The action can be trued, rebarreled and properly stocked, Or, it can also be used , like it is. It depends on your wants, needs and financial capability. If you want a 1000 yard tack driver, I would look at a custom action. If you want to build a fine custom hunter, you have the basis, in hand. GregH

 

[Dl5treez]

Pretty much looking for a solid hunting rifle. I have a variety of rifles in various calibers, but this would be my first . 330 Win Mag. Hoping to keep it a . 300..... although I was having a dream the other day about a sweet custom . 375 Ruger. Probably wouldn't work for that, though... .

Budget wise I don't want to drop a ton of money into a 47 year old action but wouldn't mind spending fair money on a good stock, action tune, and nice barrel.

Problem is, from a pure custom gun standpoint, I don't know what "fair money" means anymore... with customs approaching $!5,000 maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew... .


Question... if the . 300 Winchester Magnum needs a 26" or longer barrel to maximize the potential, why did Winchester use mostly a 24" barrel on the Model 70? Was it a size issue, marketing, etc?


Thanks!

 

[GHarman]

Pretty much looking for a solid hunting rifle. I have a variety of rifles in various calibers, but this would be my first . 330 Win Mag. Hoping to keep it a . 300..... although I was having a dream the other day about a sweet custom . 375 Ruger. Probably wouldn't work for that, though... .



Budget wise I don't want to drop a ton of money into a 47 year old action but wouldn't mind spending fair money on a good stock, action tune, and nice barrel.



Problem is, from a pure custom gun standpoint, I don't know what "fair money" means anymore... with customs approaching $!5,000 maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew... .





Question... if the . 300 Winchester Magnum needs a 26" or longer barrel to maximize the potential, why did Winchester use mostly a 24" barrel on the Model 70? Was it a size issue, marketing, etc?





Thanks!

All good questions and considerations. Everything is expensive, it doesnt matter what you want to do.

I dont know why Winchester did what they did with barrel lengths(short barrel, excessive muzzle blast, with the longer magnum cases)). They did do 26" barrel offerings, its hard to say what version you have. I would not let the "age" of the action influence your decision. The Pre-64 M-70 is a highly desireable action. It is a "Controlled Round Feed" with a simple but effective trigger and safety. The Metallurgy is adequate for most conversions and modern . 300 Winchester Magnum loads. IMHO, This is the cartridge I would stay with.

The . 375 Ruger could be a good conversion. Check the Cartridge dimensions here; . 375 Ruger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediavs the . 300 Win. Mag, here; . 300 Winchester Magnum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It may require some feed rail fitting and a new follower? It would require modifications to the bolt face and extractor. Maximum overall length of the loaded round would need to be checked and compared with MOAL of the . 300 Win Mag. It is in the ball park.

Barrel/fitting/chambering,crown, stock and action truing will be in the neighborhood $1300-$1500. If you buy a chambering reamer/headspace gage, figure another $200. A bedding job will cost $100-$200, depending on the stock. These are some ballpark figures to give you an idea. Barrel fluting is extra. An H-S Precision over the McMillan stock will save you about $150. Both do require bedding to achieve best results, contrary to the advertisements. Hope this helps! GregH

 

[Dl5treez]

All good questions and considerations. Everything is expensive, it doesnt matter what you want to do.

I dont know why Winchester did what they did with barrel lengths(short barrel, excessive muzzle blast, with the longer magnum cases)). They did do 26" barrel offerings, its hard to say what version you have. I would not let the "age" of the action influence your decision. The Pre-64 M-70 is a highly desireable action. It is a "Controlled Round Feed" with a simple but effective trigger and safety. The Metallurgy is adequate for most conversions and modern . 300 Winchester Magnum loads. IMHO, This is the cartridge I would stay with.

The . 375 Ruger could be a good conversion. Check the Cartridge dimensions here; . 375 Ruger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediavs the . 300 Win. Mag, here; . 300 Winchester Magnum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It may require some feed rail fitting and a new follower? It would require modifications to the bolt face and extractor. Maximum overall length of the loaded round would need to be checked and compared with MOAL of the . 300 Win Mag. It is in the ball park.

Barrel/fitting/chambering,crown, stock and action truing will be in the neighborhood $1300-$1500. If you buy a chambering reamer/headspace gage, figure another $200. A bedding job will cost $100-$200, depending on the stock. These are some ballpark figures to give you an idea. Barrel fluting is extra. An H-S Precision over the McMillan stock will save you about $150. Both do require bedding to achieve best results, contrary to the advertisements. Hope this helps! GregH

all good info. thank you!





A local gunsmith who does decent work wants to look at it..... says he has some "goodies" that may be of interest..... will find out more tomorrow.

 

[sheamc]

Everything you've been told so far is dead on. I would add a couple of things. Gunsmiths can do everything you need (I know, thats what I went to school for), but there are more barrel options. You should look into a company called Lothar Walther. Plenty of options with barrels and can do all the machining there in house to mate it to your action. I would true the action face, lugs, and bolt face. As long as these surfaces are correct things should shoot well. The age of your action shouldn't even be a concern. They have been modifying OLD Mauser actions for decades and they generally hold up as long as they are not massacred. As for the stock, McMillan seems to be the choice of most who have the finances. Just don't get stuck in that rut that they are the only ones worth having. Most important, make sure when it is all done it is the gun YOU want it to be. That is what makes the best gun.



Shea

 

[WDaniels]

Dl5treez,

If you want to get rid of that "47" year old action, just let me know and I'll take it off of your hands so fast that your head will spin. Oo.

WD

 

[Dl5treez]

Guess I probably should've said that differently.



... . so what I meant was I don't want to just put a new barrel and stock on the action as-is... ... but don't really have the funds @ present to spend a huge amount on action tuning... ... @ the time not knowing how much it would really cost to go through the action, that is.





So WD... . you wanna buy a pre-64 with the ultra rare tactical threaded barrel and CQC shorty stock? :-laf





Wonder if I could get a buyer to bid if I list it that way... ???... Hmm... . :-laf

 

[sheamc]

May I suggest something. Go to the Brownells website and click on the guntech section. Type in mauser and find the mauser project part #2. This will go over the action truing process, which is very similar to the process which would be used on the Winchester. At least you would have more background info on what is entailed for your project.



GunTech : The Mauser Project - Part 2 - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools



Hope this helps.



Shea

 

[WDaniels]

Dl5treez,

SURE! Have several, my pride and joy is a 30-06 Winchester Supergrade built between 1938 and 45. (Record keeping during the war years left alot to be desired) I just hate to see someone mess with a pre64 action and has filed, sanded or otherwise opened up the rails in the action destroying it while trying to make it into something it isn't. Play with Interarms, remington, sako, ruger actions. Leave the Pre64's alone. They are to valuable



WD

 

[Dl5treez]

May I suggest something. Go to the Brownells website and click on the guntech section. Type in mauser and find the mauser project part #2. This will go over the action truing process, which is very similar to the process which would be used on the Winchester. At least you would have more background info on what is entailed for your project.

GunTech : The Mauser Project - Part 2 - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools

Hope this helps.

Shea

Great read, thank you. Pretty much confirms why I have no chance at being a gunsmith... barely have enough time to shoot let alone build a rifle. :-laf

Dl5treez,
SURE! Have several, my pride and joy is a 30-06 Winchester Supergrade built between 1938 and 45. (Record keeping during the war years left alot to be desired) I just hate to see someone mess with a pre64 action and has filed, sanded or otherwise opened up the rails in the action destroying it while trying to make it into something it isn't. Play with Interarms, remington, sako, ruger actions. Leave the Pre64's alone. They are to valuable

WD

How much is left of value? Does the . 300 Win Mag fact make it a collector even though the barrel is threaded and the stock has been sanded?

If the barrel wasn't threaded I would look for another stock and keep it as original as possible, but basically I'm starting with a good action and the rest is pretty much junk, from a collector standpoint..... although as it sits right now it is apparent from seeing it in action that the rifle is more than capable of accuracy far beyond my capability.

I've seen prices on pre-64's from $500 on upwards of $5,000 or more but have no clue what just an action is worth.

 

[WDaniels]

It would've been nice if the barrel matched the action as far as age. Would've increased the value a little but the action is the heart of the Pre64. The calibar of 300 Win Mag is of no collection value that I know of. Get the gun bible book and look it up. It'll tell you the value. If the entire rifle were original then it would still be more. But if the prior dork weed who owned the rifle messed up the orginal barrel, take the barrel off and put a new one on and save the old one for reselling. Like I said, I'll take the action if you don't want it.

WD

 

[GHarman]

If its a pre-war (WW-2) action, it was rebarreled (Rechambered is more likely if it has an original M-70 barrel on it) (pre-war M-70's have a shaped tang like a clover leaf where the rear tang screw comes through, Post War Pre-64's have a tapered tang that terminates in a small radius at the back of the receiver. ) A Post war, Pre 64 M-70 action chambered for . 300 Win Mag is not necessarily rebarreled. The . 300 Winchester Magnum cartridge was introduced in 1963. It is conceivable that this round was chambered in the last year production of the old style M-70 Winchesters. A look at the barrel stamping for caliber and the bottom of the barrel, in front of the recoil lug (you have to remove the barreled action from the stock) will show the date of manufacture. Over stamped caliber, on the barrel, or an early manufacture date will show this to be a rebarreled (rechambered) rifle. Other than the muzzle brake and stock finish reducing the value as a collector piece, The decision is yours. GregH

 

[Dl5treez]

It's an original . 300 Win Mag



Serial number 566784





The barrel and stock are original equipment.



Flaws are the previous owner, who actually bought this thing new, had a muzzle brake installed and sanded the finish off the stock to use oil on it instead, because he liked the look.





Otherwise, it's all there. The holes in the receiver are the original thread pitch and the sling swivels are OEM also.



The hood is missing on the front sight but the flip up rear sight is complete and still legible...

 

[GHarman]

COOL! Just getting a clarification on just what you had in hand. GregH