precooler any one try it?

[Mhannink]

ok i work for cat and the new acert engines all have an air to water precooler before the turbo to cool the intake temps even more and reduce nox. my idea is to relocate my passenger side battery and build a precooler/cold air box. the cold air box would be seperate from the precooler but all in one unit. anyways my thought is to use a heater core or VERY small radiator inside the precooler side of the box and run water through it seal the box and run air from the turbo through the top and out the bottom to the intercooler.



im currently working on getting parts but i want to know what others think and see if there are any ideas or changes that someone might see. oh and of course this is for power increase not emissions

 

[NoSeeUm]

I am misunderstanding obvoiusly?



Not sure an air - water cooler pre turbo would not heat the air. Are you talking an exhaust side cooler?



Jim

 

[rbattelle]

Not sure an air - water cooler pre turbo would not heat the air. Are you talking an exhaust side cooler?

I agree. My intake temperatures run about 10°F above ambient, all the time. I wouldn't want to run engine water through there at nearly 200°!



Are you sure this is what Cat is doing? Are you sure that heat exchanger on the ACERT isn't the intercooler? It would make sense (from an emissions perspective) to heat your post-compressor air, but doesn't make much sense to heat the compressor inlet air.



Now, if you want to run an A/C evaporator core mounted in the intake tract just before the turbo inlet... that is a very cool idea.



Ryan

 

[Mhannink]

yes cat does run an air to water cooler before the air to air cooler(ataac). the reason why i think this would work is your pre ataac temps are 300+ the intercooler cools this down most of the way but not to ambient. at least in the theroys i have heard and understand. now if you run this air through a water cooler first so that it takes off say half the temp then run it to your ataac and take the other half off with the ataac.



i could be wrong maybe our intercoolers work better then i thought. maybe if someone has temps running down the road that would be good.



anyone know what the temps pre ataac and post ataac? actually measured them?



the reason why cat runs these on their engines is because the cooler air reduces nox emmissions.



on a side note if someone wanted to spend the time and build a seperate circut aftercooler(scac) you would get the most gain out of your intercooling system.

 

[nickleinonen]

so the 2 charge air coolers are in series with each other AFTER the turbocharger?

that makes sense. ge does that on the evo locomotives. the turbo air outlets go into a water/air cooler first, then they go through 2 parallel air/air coolers. with that, they are able to get the intake air charge temperature down pretty close to ambient air temperatures [actually causes them problems in winter as even with the shutters on the air/air coolers closed and fans off, they are getting too cold iat's]

 

[MA2LA]

The question still remains, What is the post turbo/ precooler temps that our trucks see?

 

[Mhannink]

so the 2 charge air coolers are in series with each other AFTER the turbocharger?



that makes sense. ge does that on the evo locomotives. the turbo air outlets go into a water/air cooler first, then they go through 2 parallel air/air coolers. with that, they are able to get the intake air charge temperature down pretty close to ambient air temperatures [actually causes them problems in winter as even with the shutters on the air/air coolers closed and fans off, they are getting too cold iat's]

yeah all of cats bigger acert motors anything with twins has this air to water aftercooler and then an air to air in series after the air to water. its for emmissions only but seems to work great for cooling the air way down

 

[monkeyman]

Reading this post ,you most likely would want the air going in cooler in the hot days, so why not tap into the a/c and run freon through a core when its on?
Just a thought,
Rick

 

[Mhannink]

monkeyman i like that idea and have thought of that but i dont know there are just to many obsticals and down sides for me. but it is a good idea and it would probably work better

 

[WDixon27]

you could run a ice chest in the bed with a coil to feed cool water to the precooler

 

[ScottLauer]

I thought the air-to-water is an intercooler(between stage 1 and 2) and the air-to-air is an aftercooler(after both turbos) but I admit it's been a while since I've tinkered with them so I could be mistaken. Also the ACERTs are pumping out about 60 PSI of boost pressure. Being as a stock truck only runs about 1/3 of that I don't think a stock charger compresses the air enough to put out that much heat. But I could be mistaken. It's been known to happen before.

 

[NoSeeUm]

OK, think I got it now. Compound turbo's right?



1st Turbo --> ATWTAC --> 2nd Turbo --> ATAAC --> Intake



I know that ice boxes have been tried (pulling / drag) as well as CO2 spray on the IC. I am guessing that the improvement becomes not worth the effort otherwise it would be more common. From what I read, better to use N2O.



Talking about a refrigerent type systems, I am sure impracticallity raises its ugly head due to the Hp requirement of the compressor over shadowing the Hp gained. Otherwise I would think it would also be more commonly used.



Just guessing..... Oo.



Jim

 

[Mhannink]

OK, think I got it now. Compound turbo's right?



1st Turbo --> ATWTAC --> 2nd Turbo --> ATAAC --> Intake



I know that ice boxes have been tried (pulling / drag) as well as CO2 spray on the IC. I am guessing that the improvement becomes not worth the effort otherwise it would be more common. From what I read, better to use N2O.



Talking about a refrigerent type systems, I am sure impracticallity raises its ugly head due to the Hp requirement of the compressor over shadowing the Hp gained. Otherwise I would think it would also be more commonly used.



Just guessing..... Oo.



Jim

no its turbo one --> turbo 2 --> jwac(jacket water aftercooled) --> attac --> inlelt. thats on the c15 acert that im looking at right now as i write this.



as far as a ice cooler in the bed cat also has a system used on some heavy equipment thats called seperate circuit aftercooled (scac) imagine on your trucks a radiator where the intercooler is with water in it. off to the side you have a jwac(jacket water aftercooled) and then it goes into the engine. this is the best most ideal set up for cooling since the water gets cooled to ambient temps and then cools the air to something close to that. however the down side is its heavy and a lot of extra gear. just imagine of you had the scac with ice water mixed with salt in there you would have some COLD air going into your engine. now add the cooling effects of co2 or better yet n2o and you can really get some cold air in your engine.