programer question

[JClavett]

Hi, i have an 03 5. 9 non-H. O. quad cab 4x4 with a bully dog 4 in exhaust, K&N intake and a Bullydog power pup programmer with the outlook monitor.



i have run this combo for 4-5 years on the middle "performance" setting and have been happy with it for the most part. last week i decided to download the "exteme" setting to put a little excitement back into driving again. it worked!! my truck is fun again !



my question is about the warning that poped up saying "engine and trans integrity may be compromised. do not tow !".



the eng has 180K the trans has 40k with a shift kit and mildly upgraded single disk billet front conv. my camper is 10k and my wheeling rig is 7k with the trailer. should i be worried as long as i watch my exhaust temps. i've never seen the temp over 1100 deg and it's usually under 1000. i watch it closely when towing anyhow.



does this downloader work off pressure or timing? should i be worried about cracked injector nozzles?



i like the power but not if it will hurt my reliability. that is why i bought a cummins in the first place.



sorry about the long winded question i figured if i was going to ask i might as well give all the info i can think of.



thanks, jeff

 

[JClavett]

really, nobody on here knows how bully dog makes it's power?



i thought this was the place with the answers.

 

[JKreiss]

Hi Jeff,

This IS the place with all the answers, sometimes though they're not what we want to here. In your case, "engine and trans integrity may be compromised. do not tow!" i would think answers your question. Just turn the box down when towing. You can't have things both ways, or it breaks. Trust me. Your truck makes more than enough power to pull 10k stock. I wish i had some better advice, maybe someone else will chime in but 3k for injectors, 4k for a built transmission, who knows how much for a melted cylinder... I wouldn't risk it.

 

[seafish]

IIRC, with only one or two exceptions, ALL programmers make more power by a combination of timing advance AND fuel pressure increases. Also IIRC, with the exception of the Smarty Jr, which does NOT increase FP past stock high limits but does add more pressure at different intervals, most progarammers DO increase fuel pressure past the oem high limit. Without adequate filtration, and even with it, there is ALOT of damage that can happen to the injectors and/or drivetrain and/or motor if such fuel pressure increases are not closely monitored by using gauges in real time. That being said, MANY people choose to use them and love what they do for the truck, until something breaks. Sorry to hear of your troubles... let us know what you find out.

Maybe for more info, contact this TDR member BullyDogJason-- he is a vendor rep here on TDR--

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/members/1007203.html

 

[cerberusiam]

The reliability is in your right foot, not the programmer. If you thrash it hard enough you can compromise engine or trans at stock power let alone turned up.



Do you want to tow on extreme? No, thats not what it is meant for. The combination of timing and fueling at low rpms is going to put a lot more heat into the cylinders under a load at thats what you do NOT want. The non-HO engines don't have gallery cooling so they are not as forgiving of high cylinder temps, keep the extreme for empty playing and driving. Use the performance to tow and you should be fine.



Sounds like the trans has been upgraded to handle some more power and the ngine defitnitely will, within reasonable use. What you SHOULD do though is get a better air filter than what you are using. The K&N has some issues that will lead to reduced reliability and longevity.

 

[SierraRam]

I agree with everyone above, changes in timing, rail pressure, duration of the injection events and rpm/fuelling re-mapping are how most programmers develop their power. Some programmers allow you to adjust how much of these parameters you want to incorporate with the tune unfortunately the BDPP does not.



Extreme and towing is a real bad idea, don't do it.

 

[JClavett]

thanks guys. thats the info i was looking for. it sounds like i'd better turn it back down.



just to put my mind at ease how do the guys running twin turbos and stacked programers get away with pulling twice the wieght i do? is the combustion event that much different with the high end parts or are they just throwing more money at it when it does break?



cerberusiam, whats the deal with the K&N filters? has a comparison been done like the oil filter article in the last TDR mag? i read that one 3 times, great info!

 

[JJPage]

just to put my mind at ease how do the guys running twin turbos and stacked programers get away with pulling twice the wieght i do?

I tow with my boxes and programmer pretty much off. The EZ, I leave on 2, just because it's where it's always been and is a nuisance to change. TST off. Smarty on sw1, not because I need the extra timing, but because my truck will not retain the tire calibration size when I return it to stock.



Now that I'm running TNTR software instead of 411, sw1 is almost too much towing. I have not encountered a situation where I need anymore power towing.

 

[cerberusiam]

just to put my mind at ease how do the guys running twin turbos and stacked programers get away with pulling twice the wieght i do?

The twins actually help not hinder in most cases because they provide a much better air flow. The power enhancements are another story. A little power correctly applied helps a lot, too much power and too much weight equals a melted engine.



Don't buy into the HP game of posted dyno numbers being used on a DD towing truck, it only happens in fantasy land. :-laf One of the biggest laughter producers is the guy claiming a 600 HP DD and towing truck and he uses it all. Without being able to tune the parameters, getting beyond 400 HP on a heavy load is just needless abuse, at 500 HP constant the engine cannot cool itself or th eoil to keep things together for a long period. Towing at GCVW I run 40-50 more HP and thats about all it likes with my mods.



What K&N filter are you using? Open element or drop in? Oiled or dry? The K&N's got a bad rap when too many sellers advocated using these open element oiled filters on a turbo charged engine that is capable of drawing 10 times more air than a normally aspirated gasser. Even with stock boost pressures the turbo will created enough suction to pull the oil thru the element and the dirt along with it on just about any filter. Many dusted engines were the result. Depending on your filter setup it may be OK but there are better filters for peace of mind available. The OE filter for instance will flow enough to support 450-500 HP with a few mods to the box and have excellent filtering. Air filters are the same as fuel filters, get the best filter you can or problems are just a matter of time.