Pto ?

[therabbittree]

I'm in the middle of a dumping flatbed conversion on my 92 w350 5spd etc.

I have a Omaha standard hoist and a chelsea pto. The transmission pto cover area is out of the question as the transmission to bellhousing bolt will not allow the pto to bolt flush to the transmission. So the next bet is the driver side pto port on the np205. . I checked that and it is above the oil in the transfer case. The gear in my pto doesn't match the gear in the transfercase. I did some research and you can get another gear to fit, and the pto above the oil in the transfercase may require a pressure oil system to oil the pto. It was too late to call around to try to source the proper pto gear for the np205. Does any one know the proper pto gear needed? The PTO I have is Chelsea 6 bolt mechanical 1 gear the Serial # is AZMHNW-2-0 ,The wrong gear # is F-Z-P-437 this pto was installed on a older chevy 2wd 4spd a 465?

Does any one with a 5sp 4x4 have a pto installed in their truck for a hoist or other ? and does any one have the part # for the gear or experience using the np205 for the pto with the oil pump adaptions? I did a forum search for pto in the first gen section and got no info???

I don't want to try to use a electric over hysdralic unit as I've heard bad things about them ie . . very weak, and some of my friends had to shovel off part of the load to dump with them etc . . any exp. with them?

Thanks

Deo

 

[KOG]

I've got an electric dump rig which has proven to be able to dump much more than my truck should ever carry. My dump body also came from an older Chevy, but it obviously demonstrates that electric can work fine if you get one intended to lift enough load. THE CTD is an excellent base for a dump for two reasons in my case. The weight of the engine helps to hold down the front end when the body is raised plus the battery and alternator capacity easily support a strong electric motor on the dump.

My dump is rated to handle 5000lbs. I have inadvertently had about 8000 on it once (hauling gravel for the first time and quarry operator loaded what he guessed was 5000 onto truck). This was interesting on a SRW rear rated for 6000lbs as it put almost 11,000 on the rear. I wasn't really amazed that the Dana 70 held it, but I'm still amazed that the stock wheels and particularly tires, rated for 3045lbs each, held it. It was only a 3 mile trip and I held it down to 30mph, but still. That's not a little bit of overload, that's waaaaaaaay overloaded. I haven't done that since. I've found it very helpful to have air springs on the rear both to carry the load more easily and to act as a built in scale. Once I've seen how much air pressure increases for a given load I can use the air gauge in the cab as a built in scale. On mine if you start with 50psi in the springs a pressure of 70psi indicates that you've got 7000lbs on the rear axle. Still an overload for the tires, but not a lot. And on my chassis/cab the rear axle and springs are the exact same parts rated at 7500lbs on the DRW (I'm hunting for more tire and wheel, at least 8000lb for 16" and maybe 10,000 if I go to 19. 5").

In your case, if you can find the proper electric dump you'd be fine. I was able to buy the entire body I used for $200, but it was rough. The tailgate was missing and I had to build one from scratch. I had to add a screen to the front to protect the cab (previous owner had broken two rear windows out of the Chevy cab due to lack of screen). But the dump mechanism was all there and turned out to be working fine. I ran a #2 cable from the starter terminal to the dump switch instead of the #6 that was installed on the Chevy.

If you decide to back up and go electric I can send you info on the cylinder size and such that mine uses. I realize that it may be cheaper for you to come up with the parts to make your PTO dump work if you can do it. Since mine is auto, I didn't have that option. But based on the way mine works, I like the electric dump just fine and it's certainly easier to install.

 

[therabbittree]

Thanks for the infor. I did some more research the pump for the hoist is a Williams Machine and Tool Model 40 tank and internal pump setup its pretty cool. rated at 3500 psi and 3. 31 Gpm at that pressure. the Hoist is a older Drop hinge Omaha Standard its a 46-DH Model, it was from a 14' Chevy dump. I'm trying to find its ratings as they don't make that model currently. the new models have different #s. I hope to source a gear and oil pump setup today. .

There was another reply from Tworline here? but it disappeared . . weird, any how the transfercase would work the same as the trans for using the pto. Put the transfer case in nuetral, engage the pto, and put the trans in gear . . thats all if you want to use it while moving, you just need to go slow to keep the pump speed to 1000 rpm.

Thanks

Deo

 

[therabbittree]

I just got off the Phone . . with Florig in Philadelphia they are aChelsea Pto dealer. . and spend a chunk of change ha. . oh well. . the PTO model I had is WAY old ie 40 years or so its a A model . . the predecessor to the basic 100 series Chelsea pto. . the gear the gear # that I have wasn't even in his book etc, and if I wanted a force oil feed system then I would need a new 2 gear pto. one with a constant running gear to pump gear lube and a engageable sliding gear to engage the pto drive. . ie more $ but all new complete setup ie with indicator light, cables, drive shaft parts, ha a instruction manual . . a god send etc etc. . Should be shipping today. . so now I just got to get my fuel tank situation complete today ha. .

I will post pics and part #s for any one inerested in doing this on there truck . .

Thanks

Deo

 

[KOG]

Since your lift cylinder came from a 14' dump you'll have no trouble lifting all you can put on a 9' or 10' body. And you'll be able to lift far more than the 350 can carry.

 

[TWorline]

I had a case of brain fade so I deleted my post and went to bed!

 

[therabbittree]

well the pto showed up its 442 series chelsea. Problem is the output shaft is facing the front of the truck. . argh. So I have to send it to back for changes. Also I noticed no pressure lube option, like I had asked for? I contacted the dealer, and their engineer explained that the pressure lube is mainly used with a auto trans and uses the return fliud as a feed. . if the transmission or transfer case your using doesn't have pressureized oil it won't work. Unless i Rig up a pump similar to a nascar rear end lube pump with a pulley on the pto driveshaft to pump gear lube up into the pto... thats a last resort. the engineer said if it was his truck he would want the pto mounted in a oil bath source ie trans etc. . so then we look... the 360 getrag is not listed in their application book..... argh again. . the nv4500 is so is the g56 etc. . so now im contemplating a trans swap earlier then I wanted. . haha... argh I had planned on swapping a trans any how . . just now it maybe earlier then later... I'd like to attemp a g56 . . but no one has done one yet . . I am a little leary of ythe nv4500 do to breakage. . I know a friend who has a quad 4x4 nv4500 that has broken his a lot and its has all the big upgrades. . he says now he's breaking some part that they can't make bigger or stronger etc. . argh a $ tree. .

if I do it pto style I just might bite the bullet and go direct mount hydraulic pump. I would basically have a central hydraulic set up... . I think that would be the best. . have ports at the front and rear to run other stuff. . and my dump. . Omaha standard told me the hoist I have is good for over 12000 lbs ha. . needs 3250 psi to lift and1500 for return. . at least the truck will lift what ever is put on it. . I don't plan to overload but its nice to know i would have to shovel off any thing to get the dump to work. . any how any ideas. . besides a hydro electric setup... ??? PI had planned on atrans swap any how . . any options on that? the 5600 is kinda out as its expensive and its parts avail is not good. the nv4500 has lots of parts and is available but even the upgraded trans are breaking things. . the g56 is nice but its new so they aren't out there in th yards too much and the overdrive is high . . there was rumor of a lower ratio overdrive available for them , But I haven't heard much on that. . and it would be a lot of fab work to put on in. . I'm not afraid of fab work but my wallet is afraid of a trans swap. . haha oh well back to fabricating my "new" passenger side fuel tank.



Later

Deo

 

[PToombs]

Deo, I thought PTO's were kind of universal? 2 bolt patterns, big for the bottom of big trannies, 10 sp, 13 sp, etc. And the small one for mid size trucks, pickups, 1 tons, etc. All you had to do was shim it and go?

I also thought they would go on either way? Shaft towards front or back, no difference?

 

[therabbittree]

naw they're like cars and trucks . . lots of different options to fit a certain application in the best manner. . there are many types or styles that can be made t ofit other transmissions or case etc. . not all tranmission have the same gear in them some are right helix, some left helix, some straight cut. . others have multiple gears etc. . etc you get the drift. some gear spacing is different, some transmissions even have a pto cover but can't use a pto because the cover is just to access internal parts for service. etc etc so you need to spec the pto to fit your application exactly otherwise a couple of things could happen . . 1 - not work or fit 2 - fit but not last, and 3 -cause interferance issues with the rest of your vehicle etc. . so lots to consider. . it can get complicated like building a engine for some one it needs to be tailored to them . . and not be universal to get the best use / fit. .

check out parker's web site or muncie's and look at all the options in the pdf files. . and you'll see what I mean.

Thanks,

Deo

 

[PToombs]

I knew some of those things, some I didn't. I'll have to scoot over and check those sites out. Never know when I might have to put one in.

 

[therabbittree]

check out the parker website for cheslsea ptos. . I'll be using the 442 series. . on my G56 swap. . now. . any how you can order a free set of catalogs/ applications guides there etc just got mine in the mail yesterday



Chelsea Products Division (Parker Online Catalog)

Later

Deo