pulling in 5th gear

[cloker12]

I have a 97 Dodge 2500 4x4 5 speed and haul a 20ft car hauler and 800 RZR on the flatbed the combined total weight is about 17k.
I watch the egts pretty close because i don't want to burn down the 12v but my question is can i safely pull hills in 5th gear as long as the temps are safe or should i downshift to 4th and pull the hills that way because i am a little concerned about overheating the trans.

 

[GAmes]

After going through a dozen NV4500s my advice is to shift down if the hill requires 20 psi or more of boost.

 

[cloker12]

Sounds like you have had a lot of experience with the nv4500 and I'll follow your advice.
Another question i have is I've just installed a transmission cooler on the 4500 and it starts to register at 140degrees but I'm not sure what normal operating temperature's are.

 

[GAmes]

Good luck with that. I also had one for awhile, and it started at 140 too. The needle never moved in the winter, and I saw up to 190 in the summer every now and then. I also had FAST coolers. It never once gave me an indication of impending failure. I filled the hole with a fuel pressure gauge. It is a useful gauge. Lets me know when the fuel filter needs changing and when the OFV is getting weak.

 

[KATOOM]

I highly recommend running a temperature gauge on your manual transmission if you're towing over the GVWR of that transmission. That goes for any vehicle.
I have a temp gauge on my 4500 and I have Fastcoolers too. My gauge works all the time...even in the winter.

In saying that, running in OD (5th gear in the 4500) is always going to build heat...and a lot of heat when towing too. Example, I can drive down the freeway at 70 mph in 5th gear and the transmission will eventually reach 165* - 170* after about 30 miles or so, unless its freaking cold outside. Thats just the kind of heat 5th gear will generate. So towing in 5th gear not only places too much stress on that small gear which is supported by only "one" bearing, but its just going to create a really HOT transmission in no time.

Example, I tow a 14k - 15k toy hauler in the triple digit summer heat in 4th gear (direct drive in the 4500) and my transmission temps can stay in the 150* - 160* range. Thats how much cooler the transmission will run in 4th gear over running in 5th gear. I dont even attempt to pull that house size monstrosity in 5th gear because the engine is working too hard, EGT's stay too hot, and the transmission temp needle is on the rise.

The ONLY time my transmission will ever get hotter than that is if I have to pull a long hill slower than 4th gear will allow, whereby I have to downshift into 3rd. Then you can clearly see the temperature gauge slowly begin to rise up, where it will usually get no hotter than around 200* - 210*...if I have to hold 3rd gear long enough. Usually thats on a looooong hill too.

DONT tow in 5th gear unless you're towing something like a rowboat or smaller lighter trailer. The guy who invented Fastcoolers had the same issue GAmes had with the 4500. A hotshot driver who was seeing transmission temperatures in excess of 275* which was destroying the fluid and creating premature failures. I'm sure it didnt help that he was towing well over the GVWR either, but nonetheless, he made the coolers and lowered his running temperatures to 225* range. I'm guessing he was regularly pulling in 5th gear giving those numbers.

So point being, if you have a functional gauge then it should clearly show the appropriate temperatures for the towing/driving conditions.

 

[gtwitch]

As I recall when pulling in 5th I read that it was not advised as there were harmonics from the 5.9 diesel that caused the reverse/5th gear nut to back off and come loose. I know that when I had to replace my 5 speed due to a lube failure issue at about 185 K miles and found a brand new NV 4500 in the MOPAR box on line that when it arrived, there was a notice in the box that the "Fifth Gear Mod" was done to the transmission by New Venture, before it was sent to MOPAR! Because of what I had read about this issue, I always shifted down to 4th at around 1800 rpm or lower. It was said many places that this diesel engine was first designed to run at 2500 rpm in marine applications all day long for years! So I took that as good information and never pulled under 1800 rpm in 5th gear.
gtwitch in wyoming

 

[cloker12]

I highly recommend running a temperature gauge on your manual transmission if you're towing over the GVWR of that transmission. That goes for any vehicle.
I have a temp gauge on my 4500 and I have Fastcoolers too. My gauge works all the time...even in the winter.

In saying that, running in OD (5th gear in the 4500) is always going to build heat...and a lot of heat when towing too. Example, I can drive down the freeway at 70 mph in 5th gear and the transmission will eventually reach 165* - 170* after about 30 miles or so, unless its freaking cold outside. Thats just the kind of heat 5th gear will generate. So towing in 5th gear not only places too much stress on that small gear which is supported by only "one" bearing, but its just going to create a really HOT transmission in no time.

Example, I tow a 14k - 15k toy hauler in the triple digit summer heat in 4th gear (direct drive in the 4500) and my transmission temps can stay in the 150* - 160* range. Thats how much cooler the transmission will run in 4th gear over running in 5th gear. I dont even attempt to pull that house size monstrosity in 5th gear because the engine is working too hard, EGT's stay too hot, and the transmission temp needle is on the rise.

The ONLY time my transmission will ever get hotter than that is if I have to pull a long hill slower than 4th gear will allow, whereby I have to downshift into 3rd. Then you can clearly see the temperature gauge slowly begin to rise up, where it will usually get no hotter than around 200* - 210*...if I have to hold 3rd gear long enough. Usually thats on a looooong hill too.

DONT tow in 5th gear unless you're towing something like a rowboat or smaller lighter trailer. The guy who invented Fastcoolers had the same issue GAmes had with the 4500. A hotshot driver who was seeing transmission temperatures in excess of 275* which was destroying the fluid and creating premature failures. I'm sure it didnt help that he was towing well over the GVWR either, but nonetheless, he made the coolers and lowered his running temperatures to 225* range. I'm guessing he was regularly pulling in 5th gear giving those numbers.

So point being, if you have a functional gauge then it should clearly show the appropriate temperatures for the towing/driving conditions.

Thanks for the advice..i haven't towed anything since i put the coolers and guage in so I'll be watching it closely .

 

[gtwitch]

cloker, what oil/lube did you put back in your NV 4500?

 

[cloker12]

cloker, what oil/lube did you put back in your NV 4500?

REDLINE MT 85

 

[cloker12]

REDLINE MT 85

One other question i have on this subject is that when i got the Fast Coolers on the instructions it mentioned overfilling by 1 quart of fluid (which i did) and drove it for around a100mi.
When i checked underneath the truck the transmission vent looked wet so i drained it back to normal level.
Anyone else had any experience with this?

 

[NIsaacs]

Some info here:

https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/...-overfilling-fluid.html?highlight=overfilling

 

[cloker12]

Some info here:

https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/...-overfilling-fluid.html?highlight=overfilling

Looks like they are talking more about the Gtrag more than the nv 4500 but point taken, thanks

 

[KATOOM]

One other question i have on this subject is that when i got the Fast Coolers on the instructions it mentioned overfilling by 1 quart of fluid (which i did) and drove it for around a100mi.
When i checked underneath the truck the transmission vent looked wet so i drained it back to normal level.
Anyone else had any experience with this?

I also have a full 7 quarts of SyntorqLT in my 4500. With the Fastcoolers taking an additional quart apiece, thats almost one quart overfilled. I filled it through the top when I had the tower off. Been like this for about 6 years and lots of towing. The ONLY reason you'd ever compromise seals is if the vent was plugged. And...that would happen at factory fill levels too.
Here's a picture of the sight glass I put in the fill hole. You can see nothing but fluid...

 

[Michaelsloft]

I also have a full 7 quarts of SyntorqLT in my 4500. With the Fastcoolers taking an additional quart apiece, thats almost one quart overfilled. I filled it through the top when I had the tower off. Been like this for about 6 years and lots of towing. The ONLY reason you'd ever compromise seals is if the vent was plugged. And...that would happen at factory fill levels too.
Here's a picture of the sight glass I put in the fill hole. You can see nothing but fluid...

Katoom, where did you locate the sight glass?

Michael

 

[NIsaacs]

Looks like they are talking more about the Gtrag more than the nv 4500 but point taken, thanks

Well, the Getrag was a 1st gen transmission, the G-56 is a 3rd and 4th gen, made by Mercedes. But yes, the point I always try to make, is, a manual transmission is a manual transmission and Spicer, Clark and Eaton are three of the largest builders in the world. Their info is good.

On my Bobcat loader I have 4 final drives, two axles and one transfer case, they all use fill plugs. Getrags, NV4500, NV5600 and G-56 trannys do not have the fill plug in the wrong place, however the internet seems to think so.

For 50 years I have owned and operated all types of equipment with fill plugs, I fill to the bottom and stop. It works for me.

 

[KATOOM]

Well, the Getrag was a 1st gen transmission, the G-56 is a 3rd and 4th gen, made by Mercedes. But yes, the point I always try to make, is, a manual transmission is a manual transmission and Spicer, Clark and Eaton are three of the largest builders in the world. Their info is good.

On my Bobcat loader I have 4 final drives, two axles and one transfer case, they all use fill plugs. Getrags, NV4500, NV5600 and G-56 trannys do not have the fill plug in the wrong place, however the internet seems to think so.

For 50 years I have owned and operated all types of equipment with fill plugs, I fill to the bottom and stop. It works for me.

Not disagreeing with you, except its a well known and understood issue with the 5600 that the factory fill level on the early ones was too low and could cause bearing damage. Overfilling the 5600 is common...

Katoom, where did you locate the sight glass?

Michael

I'm sorry but I cant remember where I got it. If you comb through the internet for sight glass plugs you'll find plenty of sources. You just have to find the right thread and size and make sure its capable of withstanding heat and chemicals.

Here's some additional pictures which may help you. And if I find where I got it I'll be sure to let you know.

 

[Michaelsloft]

Not disagreeing with you, except its a well known and understood issue with the 5600 that the factory fill level on the early ones was too low and could cause bearing damage. Overfilling the 5600 is common...



I'm sorry but I cant remember where I got it. If you comb through the internet for sight glass plugs you'll find plenty of sources. You just have to find the right thread and size and make sure its capable of withstanding heat and chemicals.

Here's some additional pictures which may help you. And if I find where I got it I'll be sure to let you know.

Thanks Katoom, let me know if you find where you got it.
Withstanding the heat and chemicals is certainly a concern.
Michael

 

[GAmes]

https://www.genosgarage.com/product/fc-sg-cover-single-fast-coolers/transmission-coolers

 

[KATOOM]

Well there ya go...

 

[Michaelsloft]

Well there ya go...

No. I'm familiar with the Fast PTO cover with a sight glass. Thesight glass from the cover may fit the fill hole?, But I prefer to find the sight glass seperately. And would like to have the sight glass to replace plug for fill hole on the transmission case as pictured in your post. I'll search online and in the meantime and if you remember where you located the plug please let me know.
Thanks