Archived Pump Timing Disaster!

[Got Smoke?]

A friend and I attempted to time my injection pump today.



We followed all the directions, and now that we've attemped to check the timing by setting the dial indicator @ 8mm and turning it 1/4 turn counterclockwise OR until the dial indicator stops going down we have hit a disaster!!



When we turn the motor counterclock wise for the 1/4 turn it initially goes UP on the dial indicator instead of down. After much we decided to keep turning the crank pulley to see how far it would go until the indicator started going down. It went almost 1/2 a rotation AFTER the initial 1/4 turn.



HELP! If your knowledgable in timing a 12V please call my cell phone @ 615-478-0708! :{

 

[mjoppie]

are you following the directions on dodgeram.org?? there pretty much fool proof. just take a step back and look at things, there shouldnt be any harm done in rotating the motor. did you make sure it was at true tdc on #1?



hope things turn for the best for ya

if ya need help still you can call sometime

517-652-3266

im in michigan, i would call you but im not sure about the time zone differences, im up until 11:00-11:30.



matt

 

[Got Smoke?]

Gave up for the night shortly after posting this. Truck is still in pieces as I type locked up in a buddies shop.



I follow these directions here that I found through the search feature. http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1994/18-10-94a.htm



What we did that I think caused it all to go wrong was... ...



We found the plunger lift of the pump. 8. 3mm :--)

Rotated the pump back to where I wanted it 5. 7 (17*)

Broke the gear loose

Rotated back past TDC and then back to TDC to take out gear lash.

Then tightened the gear back down to the initial 11Ft/Lbs in the directions. (buddy was doing this, he's older & I thought wiser so I followed his lead).

We then tried to go back to step 12. Set the Indicator at 8mm and turn the motor 1/4 turn counterclockwise or until the inicator stop going down.



HOWEVER in our case it didn't go down it went up. We are thinking that the initial TQ of 11Ft/Lbs wasn't enough and it slipped on the shaft while we were trying to turn the motor.



Our plan for action as of now is pin the Pump @ TDC & the Motor @ TDC and start from scratch in the morning.



Unless someone else has a better idea PLEASE share I'm desperate at this point, I need my truck back on the road.



Cell # is 615-478-0708, I will check this thread again in the morning before leaving to go work on the truck.



TIA! :{

 

[BPonci]

Just pin the pump and start over. I always torque the nut to 50 ftlbs then recheck it. Hope you get it going.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Mark remember our conversation about this on the phone some time back!



Find TDC the motor using the drop valve method..... not the engine pin, then pin then pin the pump, now pop the gear loose and back the motor up 3/8th of an inch and tighten the pump nut a little, after that un-pin the pump and check the plunger lift to double check the timing(I never do)



If you want to get specific then use Balancer diameter X 3. 1416 / 360 X the degrees you want to advance the timing, your 215 pump should be at like 13 or 14 so 1/4 to 3/8th's of an inch is about right!



Jim

 

[Got Smoke?]

Mark remember our conversation about this on the phone some time back!



Find TDC the motor using the drop valve method..... not the engine pin, then pin then pin the pump, now pop the gear loose and back the motor up 3/8th of an inch and tighten the pump nut a little, after that un-pin the pump and check the plunger lift to double check the timing(I never do)



If you want to get specific then use Balancer diameter X 3. 1416 / 360 X the degrees you want to advance the timing, your 215 pump should be at like 13 or 14 so 1/4 to 3/8th's of an inch is about right!



Jim

No Jim I want to RETARD the timing... . you odviously did NOT read my post's.



I am NOT using the balancer I AM using the dial indicator/chart method.



16* is 5. 6mm of plunger lift..... my pump was at 8. 3(way past 24. 5*... I expanded piers chart)!!! and that was before we messed up and got the pump stroke about 3/4's of a revolution around from where it should be. So 3/8's of an inch isn't gonna do squat for me when the pump stroke is 10" more or less (can't remember size of balancer right now) around from where it should be.



615-478-0708 if want to try and help me time USING THE METHOD I AM USING!



Anybody else please I would appreciate some help, that's the cell # above I'm leaving now to go start on it again.

 

[RonA]

So you marked tdc on the balancer and have a pointer pointing to that mark. Rotated backward untill indicator stops dropping, zero indicator and rotate forward to tdc mark and check indicator reading.

 

[mjoppie]

i agree with jim on the drop valve method. use your tdc pin to get close and then find true tdc. break the gear loose and pin the pump to zero the pump. thats factory timing righ there, why do you want to retard the timing? it will run like crap if you do that.



matt

 

[supersonic]

I belive the previous owner had it set around 26*. and he's wanting to retard it to 16-18* to make it easier to start and more driveable.

 

[Heepdriver]

Am I getting this right? you don't want to retard the timing, from factory specs, you want to retard the timing from the 24. 5 degrees that it was at to a more reasonable amount. Just out of cuirosity what did the truck drive and act like with this much timing, where were your egts and such?

 

[Got Smoke?]

I belive the previous owner had it set around 26*. and he's wanting to retard it to 16-18* to make it easier to start and more driveable.

Chris is right, if everybody would note on my 3rd post I mentioned the original pump lift we found on the dial indicator was 8. 3mm! 16* is 5. 6mm I wrote out Pier's chart a little farther and even 24. 5* was only 7. 3mm so I'm not sure exactly what my timing was set at but it was set EXTREMEMLY to high.



The previous owner had the timing done by another shop. I will not mention names, but I called the guy and asked if he had any set parameters for timing like 16*-17* his repsone and I

No, if I did the timing on that truck the LEAST that it is at is 20*

Now with the truck @ 17* of timing (which is where I wanted it, I used 16* above as a ex. ) the motor is SO MUCH more quiter in the truck. It also sounds a lot better idling.



Chris also mentioned hard starting... ... yeah well my grid heaters haven't work all winter and I've procrastinated on getting them fixed. 20's and 10's temperature nights @ work without access to a hook for the block heater made starting a #@$%! sometimes. The severly advanced timing did not help either. I am ordering new relay's tomorrow though! Oo.



I want to end this buy saying two things. FIRST! If your timing your truck, DON'T use directions from the link I've posted above. Also TQ the pump retainer nut to about 160ft/lbs or so. We initially torqued mine to 144ft/lbs like in D-R.com's instructions, timing slipped as soon as I got into the throttle. :{



Second, I owe getting my truck back together today to RonA, he called me this morning and basically said "do these 6 steps and you will have it done" and he was right! Thanks very much Ron, as you did not have to call me all the way out here in TN from CA. That's what I love about the TDR, members can be STATES away and if a # is available they call in a heartbeat to help.



Oh and for truck drove about the same EGT wise and such. However it sounded like motor was in the cab with you! It runs much smoother and quiter now.

 

[ndurbin]

Theres nothing wrong with those instructions other than to use the valve drop method instead of the timing pin to find true TDC. Also one thing to do to make sure the nut doesn't slip before torqing it back down is to spray it down with Carb cleaner (or something like that) and blow it off w/ compressed air 2-3-4 times to get all the oil off the shaft.



Theres also another set of instructions in the 12 valve FAQ section that use the valve drop method.



Nathan

 

[PullinRam]

Wow mark i just found this. Sorry to hear about the problem ya had but really glad to hear ya got it set and back together!