Pusher Pumps vs. Hi Perf. Pump

[Jetpilot]

OK here's the question:



Which is better and why? Installing one of the pusher pump kits or installing a Hi performance pump (mallory 4140m) and eliminating the OEM lift pump.



Thanks,



Doug

 

[John]

Personally, I went with the Mallory 4140M (Marine) pump. After having it installed for several months, I'm still very pleased with my choice. To be on the safe side though, I purchased an extra Mallory 4140M which is prepped for field installation (if required) and carried under my back seat.



In the next several days I'm going to modify my Mallory 4140M with a part supplied to me by a Mallory Tech. I will report back on the results of this enhancement. If all goes well, I'll modify my spare 4140M the same way.



The following is just my opinion...



I didn't want to go the pusher pump route because if one of the TWO pumps goes south, you're screwed! One of those pathetic Carter pumps barely works on its own... add the extreme restriction of having a dead pump in series with the other and you can quickly see where you are headed...

 

[Jetpilot]

John,



What type of mod are you making to the 4140M? Also where did you mount yours (inside or outside the frame)? I am considering mounting mine outside the frame right next to the pickup line but I am concerned about protecting it in this location. I would hate to knock it off by hitting something when not running on concrete.

 

[JR2]

You forgot the third option, move your stock pump to the rear of the truck. I did it and I have decent pressure at WOT (4-7 psi). If you hit the link in my sig you can see a pic of my lift pump mounted inside the frame by the tank.



I might add that I don't think anyone has found "the" pump to mount back by the tank. There are lots of guys trying different pumps but most have had failures. I



am thinking of going with the mallory marine just to get a little more psi at wot and would be interested to hear about the mods too.



JR2

 

[csutton7]

the working innards of the mallory marine pump is no different than their non-marine--just a little info via the red rocket's owner(HVAC)---



my Aeromotive monster pump is still working(7 months)-----I've burned up a Barry Grant and a Mallory 110FI(seems like there's another one that I'm forgetting)--I didn't like the Holley 815(pressure was no better than stock even when relocated)



I'm with John--one pump is the way to go--



the Mallory seems to be a good fit as does the Summitt pump



--in about 3 months it will have been a year for a lot of guys using various pumps and hopefully they'll report on there pumps..... chris

 

[Diesel Freak]

Marine Pumps

I agree that a single pump system is the way to go.



Marine Pumps are not necessary... internally they are the same. The difference is when it comes to "fire proofing, and spark proofing" the unit. It must be able to operate in a potentially explosive environment and not cause a spark per NFPA #302 ... . not necessary on a street application... so save your eight bucks and get the non-marine 4140..... just make sure you use a regulator.



FYI... Jegs has the 4140 with the 4207 regulator for $223. 99



the 4140M (marine) goes for 231. 99

 

[John]

I like the fact that the Mallory Marine pumps have the billet aluminum pump section of the pump finished by anodizing (inside and out). Cliff, for $8. I'll take the extra measure of corrosion protection. If eight bucks is a major hardship you can always purchase the noisy Summit pump for a wallet easing, $100. Also Cliff, the Mallory 4140M pump comes with a Mallory part #4207M (black anodized. . heh,heh,heh) fuel pressure regulator for the $231. 99. I don't have a use for either one of the two 4207M regulators I own... want to make me an offer?



Cliff, a regulator is not required with the Mallory 4140M in our application... several conversations with a Mallory fuel pump tech. substantiated this.



Jetpilot, I mounted my Mallory 4140M to the outside of the frame... the only way you could mount it closer than I have is to mount your pump inside the tank. BTW, it is pretty well protected by the cab mounting "ears" which are welded to the frame.



Also see my (complete installation) post in:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29483&highlight=mallory+4140m



PS: Jetpilot, I don't want to comment on the Mallory pump modification just yet.

 

[ROADWARRIOR]

John,



What kind of pressures are you getting with the Mallory Pump?



Thanks,

Dan

 

[Ramafid]

I have the revised stock lift pump mounted next to the tank on the inside frame rail. It is located right where the fuel lines bend toward the tank. Fuel pressure has never dropped below 8 psi (cold weather) but bigger injectors and boxes than what I have could change these results. This setup has worked great for the 6 mos since I did it. I too think one pump is the way to go.

 

[Diesel Freak]

John, it sounds like your fuel system and mine are almost identical except for the pump type, and pre filter type. I love the looks of the K&N billet filter... too bad no one will see it.

 

[John]

Originally posted by ROADWARRIOR

John, what kind of pressures are you getting with the Mallory Pump?

Dan, I saw approx. 12-13 psi at idle when I first installed my Mallory 4140M although, since then I have increased the pressure so I have 17-18 psi at idle (after a few minutes for the fuel to warm up), measured by my SPA fuel pressure gauge (sensor mounted to the OE fuel filter outlet test port (via a customized 90 deg. brass fitting... 1/8-28 BSP thread)... which is located on top of the fuel filter on the '98. 5/'99 models).



Cliff, I saw the K&N billet aluminum fuel filters... I passed on them because I figured the "cooling fins" would make it harder to mount the filter as well as acting like a crud magnet for foreign debris. I was also concerned that the aluminum filter body was not anodized or otherwise clear coated. Besides, I've had extremely good luck with System 1 products in the past. BTW, what brand/model of fuel pump did you go with?



PS: the System 1 fuel filter I'm using as a pre-filter features a billet aluminum red anodized body with O-rings at either end (both end caps unscrew) and a pleated stainless steel screen type filter (30 micron). I have found most of the smaller aftermarket filters use either a replaceable paper filter (too restrictive) or a flat disc-type stainless steel filter... cheaper to produce however, there is far less surface area (i. e. , filtering area).

 

[Todd T]

being that i have the pusher pump setup i will have to disagree with the others that a single is the best way to go.



Csutton, Big Saint, Mopar Muscle, HVAC and many others have tried different single performance pumps and each has had failures.



first of all, with a performance (single) pump configuration you are at the pumps mercy of when and where it decides to let go. plus you have to find a replacement to get you going again.



with my setup, i have two Carter lift pumps. one factory and one of slightly less pressure at the tank. if one goes out the truck will still run. PLUS i can go to any Car quest parts store and get a replacement, they are usually in stock and come right off the shelf.



so to recap. with the two pump setup I replace the defective part at will. that means drive home or somewhere SAFE and replace it.



I am also willing to contest the fact that the truck will still run on just one pump. i can and have turned each pump off, one at a time and the truck would still drive.



try that with your Mallory mounted at the tank and get back to me



with my setup a have 20PSI at idle



anywhere between 10-14 at cruise speeds



and 4-5 at WOT



i have a PM3 comp, bullydog step 4's and can hold 38PSI in fourth and fifth gear. i think i am using a little bit of fuel.

 

[John]

Well Todd, if you have ever cut open one of those POS Carter fuel pumps and examined the internals you might see why I wanted absolutely nothing to do with them from there on out. One such problem that plagued the OE Carter lift pumps (at least on '98. 5s and '99s, the check ball that was supposed to seal so fuel couldn't flow back to the tank, could (and did) actually reverse itself so it wouldn't allow fuel to move forward. Doh! Sad but true. I've witnessed at least two such pumps with this condition. Carter



Also, there have been numerous posts on the TDR BB relating to having had one of the two pumps in a pusher pump system crap out on them and they were, as they say D. I. W. ! Oh well, I haven't proven this for myself so I can't expand on that one way or the other.



You are correct about one thing though, if the single pump system craps out, you are absolutely not moving! BTW, I carry a spare Mallory 4140M under the back seat that is prepped for field installation if need be.



It's always better to be preparred.



Just remember, this (alternate fuel delivery systems) like most other things on our Cummins powered Rams have a multitude of ways to arrive at the same results. Some arrive at the reults they do because of monetary constraints, others do not want to budge from the protection of their warranty, still others want the baddest a$$ed system money can buy and still others want ultimate simplicity. Additionally, the fuel delivery requirement of each Ram is as different as each owner... some have a balls out Ram they drag race, some only tow, some (like me) drive it everywhere (personal use vehicle), so you see, different strokes for different folks.

 

[Todd T]

I couldnt have said it better, John



BTW i'm like you, i drive it everywhere.



drag racing the whole way

 

[Diesel Freak]

Originally posted by John





Cliff, I saw the K&N billet aluminum fuel filters... I passed on them because I figured the "cooling fins" would make it harder to mount the filter as well as acting like a crud magnet for foreign debris. I was also concerned that the aluminum filter body was not anodized or otherwise clear coated. Besides, I've had extremely good luck with System 1 products in the past. BTW, what brand/model of fuel pump did you go with?

I am not all that worried about corrosion of the filter... . a quick shot of "rattle can" could fix that completely. as for the cooling fins... . it is going to be mounted under the truck... . so anyway you look at it what ever is mounted there will catch crud...



I have not decided on a pump yet... . my factory lift pump is still good, so I am just going to relocate it, and once it takes a crap, or I need more fuel volume I will replace it. Eventually I want 12 psi at all times at the injector pump inlet.

 

[John]

I forgot to ask Chris (csutton7)...



Are you using the Aeromotive A1000 (I believe) pump? The pump I'm referring to is the 45 psi one that has radial cooling fins on it (not the Mallory type versions they make). If so, this was going to be my first choice. After all the research I did pertaining to electric fuel pumps (on the TDR BB and especially in vendor's catalogs and website's) I was almost positive this pump was the Holy Grail of electric fuel pumps (for our application). However, after seeing how Bill Kondolay had his Mallory 4110M pump mounted (i. e. , on the outside of the frame, much closer to the tank than others on this BB have done), I wasn't sure if there would be enough room to mount the Aeromotive A1000 in the allotted space. Any comments?



If you are running the Aeromotive radial finned pump, where did you mount the pressure regulator? And, which regulator did you use? Aeromotive? If so, what model?



TIA

 

[RACE427]

Electric fuel pumps

Just a note for all of you concerned about lift pumps, all electric fuel pumps are designed to push fuel. They were never, ever designed to draw fuel from the fuel tank. With this in mind, the best place to mount an electric fuel pump is at the lowest part of the fuel tank or directly outside of it. Why Cummins mounts the lift mount right on the engine block baffles me. One would believe this is done as the Cummins engine is used in so many different applications and therefore the lift pump is part of this engine package. It would be interesting to learn what Caterpillar is using for a lift pump and if they are experiecing so many of these problems. Because the fuel pump is moving diesel oil one would think that this pump should last virtually forever, but, from what everyone is posting, this is not the case. Guess we will have to see whocan design the better mouse trap. Regards to all

 

[John]

Re: Electric fuel pumps

Originally posted by TGreco

Because the fuel pump is moving diesel oil one would think that this pump should last virtually forever

... true however, Diesel fuel is quite a bit more viscous than gas and therefore harder to move (i. e. , push). One could therefore theorize that the harder the workload on the pump the shorter its life expectancy is willing to be.

 

[John]

Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained as they say

Originally posted by John

In the next several days I'm going to modify my Mallory 4140M with a part supplied to me by a Mallory Tech. I will report back on the results of this enhancement.

Well, I tried the suggested "upgrade" to my Mallory 4140M electric fuel pump as suggested by a Mallory Tech. This involved removing the spring underneath the pressure adjustment set screw and installing a special brass "shim" to eliminate the internal bypass function of the pump. He felt the bypass function within the OE fuel delivery system would be adequate however, such was not the case. This modification wouldn't even allow the pump to cycle after cycling the ignition key.



Hence, back to square one. Oh well, I reinstalled the internal bypass spring and reset the pressure... idle is now 18-19 psi. BTW, you can set these pumps to almost any pressure you want... when I was resetting the pressure after my experiment I had the pressure up to 30 psi at one point.

 

[TxDieselKid]

has anybody tried a......

Has anybody tried a Holley Electric 350gph pump? This looks like a good pump, and has adjustable pressure, but cost an arm and a leg. In my latest Jegs, it's PN:510-12-708. I have no idea if it will flow diesel, just looks like a good pump for our aplication if it will.



Andrew