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PW Injectors, lost power?

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BOOST INSTALL

first gen pump lifespan?

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I installed the injectors yesterday morning. I’m at a loss as to what is wrong. I lost 2 psi (from 21 to 19) and I can’t get over 750-800 degrees pre-turbo on the pyrometer where I could get 900-950 degrees before. I don’t know if they sent me the wrong injectors or what. The box number is 0432133875-740. The stock injectors looked like they had four holes as opposed to the five on the new ones. The truck doesn’t blow any smoke and the idle is smooth but seems a little lower. Any suggestions? Before the group purchase, I had emailed Power Wagon and he said I would probably have to turn my fuel back but I can’t imagine I would have to turn it up to get back to what the stock injectors put out. Does anyone have any ideas other than these injectors aren't for the non-intercooled trucks?

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90 W250, 5-speed, isspro gauges, 16 cm2, K&N, Borgeson shaft, JRE 3" exhaust
 
Matt, I have had my PW's installed for about two weeks now, I have the same part numbers that you have. I gained 5 lbs of boost with these injectors. I had to cut the smoke back some, and turn the fuel up a touch. If your fuel is close to the factory settings you may need to bump her up a tad. A little tinkering with the pump should bring her back to life. Keep a close watch on those EGT's. May also want to bleed those lines again just to make sure there isn't any air in them. Hope this helps, let me know how ya make out.

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93 250 4X4 Reg Cab Auto.
Autometer Pyro/Boost.
16cm2, PW Injectors.
Straight Exhaust.
K&N, "tweaked pump".
Borgeson shaft.
26PSI Unloaded. 91K
 
See the posting "Power Wagon Injectors a good idea??" It may shed some light on your situation. Let me know if I can help you.

thanks
Don
 
I agree that if your fuel is set at stock, there isn't any more fuel going in there. I had my fuel turned up, then turned it back to stock when I installed the injectors. To me, it seemed like: stock injectors + fuel turned up = PW injectors + fuel turned down. SO I turned it back up then I felt the power. It was all over for me at this point and I was addicted. MORE POWER MORE POWER!!!

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  • '93 250 LE 4x4 5spd 4:10 Loaded,dual 5" chrome stacks,12cm² turbo(37psi),PW injectors,K&N,pyro/boost,US Gear E-Brake,tool box,CB,10" AR rims, 285/75/16 Bf goodrich. "wirenut_21529" on Yahoo Messenger
  • '97 Ford B-Series school bus (5. 9 Cummins!)I'm gonna Bomb it!
  • '94 GMC 2500 6. 5L Turbo
PICTURES.
 
If I had air in the system would the truck run smooth and start on the first revolution as with the stock injectors? It had about three revolutions when it fired off after I changed them out. Right now I can't get the truck to smoke even a little bit. The enviro-nazi's would love this thing! I used to get a slight haze with the old injectors with my foot in it. Wirenut, your truck is different being intercooled and had different injectors than mine did originally. I bought the injectors to get more power without having to turn up the fuel in hopes that I may even have to turn the pump back to keep the temps down. Can the tips be changed on these injectors instead of having to buy new injectors?
 
Matt, Have you messed with the Diaphram or start wheel any ? I have the PW injectors but have not installed yet. I know that your truck is not inter-cooled, but try messing with the star wheel and diaphram. I posted a thread about how it (turning the diaphram and star wheel) made no sense to me until I pulled up some things in the archives and looked at it closely. I know it must be an extreme bummer to buy something with the intention of gaining power and then it not come true. If you have any questions e-mail me direct.

I just entered the words star wheel in the archive section and got good info. Also try Dave fritz page it has good info also. Hope you get things worked out.

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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach and Pyro (pre-turbo), 210,000+ miles, straight pipe,old and abused but still running strong!!!!
 
While the PW inj. work good in a 91. 5-93 factory intercooled truck they won't give a power increase over the stock 89-91. 5 inj. There is a set of inj. that will work for that application & even more power than the PW inj. in the later trucks. If your interested e-mail me & I'll get a price for you.

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Piers, BD engine R&D
 
One of the reasons I bought my truck was because a friend bought a new '91 2WD reg cab, non-intercooled, 3 speed auto truck to haul bees and it really moved when stock. When I got my '93 5 speed I was disappointed at the 13 psi stock boost and poor power. That's all changed with the PW injectors though.

Like wirenut it's max diaphragm and full load fuel turned up for power but very tight diaphragm spring and no preload on the AFC set screw to cut smoke SOME.


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'93 W350 Club Cab, Bright White, 5 sp. , 132K, Factory Options: LE, 4. 10 Limited Slip, 7600 lb. rear springs, tachometer, front stabilizer bar. Mods: Banks stinger plus, Linex bedliner, 25,000 lb gooseneck ball, 10,000 lb receiver, Tekonsha brake controller, POWER WAGON injectors-WAY faster than stock!.
 
Several people have e-mailed me asking about these injectors. On Monday of next week I'll be running them on the dyno so I can report accurate hp, torque & opacity levels. I'm also working on buying some in large enough numbers to give a good price, I'll submit the results asap
Thanks, Piers
BD R&D dept.
 
Thanks Piers. Well, I'll be one of the first ones to say that the Power Wagon injectors are ONLY good in the intercooled 1st Gen trucks. They are NOT for the non-intercooled. There is a BIG difference in the STOCK injectors of the non-intercooled and intercooled trucks contrary to previous posts. My non-intercooled injectors with 110,000 miles flowed more fuel than the Power Wagon injectors as evident in both boost and pyrometer readings before and after installation. However, due to the different size heads (9mm for non-intercooled and 7mm for intercooled or replacement heads) the stock injectors from my application will not fit the newer intercooled and replacement head trucks. I eagerly await Piers results and to hear from Big Don about his marine injectors as I'm reinstalling my old injectors.

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90 W250, 5-speed, isspro gauges, 16 cm2, K&N, Borgeson shaft, JRE 3" exhaust
 
Piers. It would be awesome to see dyno readings on both types of 1st gen trucks if you have an intercooled one to play with as well. Very interested to see how they compare to the PW's. I would like to upgrade a little more but I'm afraid of a towing meltdown. Thanks for contributing here in the 1st gen. forum.

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'93 W250, LE, CC, 4x4, 5spd. , Cummins, K&N, 16cm turbo, Power Wagon injectors, Professionaly rebuilt and calibrated pump, straight exhaust, Lund visor w/lights, 5th wheel, Gooseneck, H. D. rear hitch, Aluminum everything. My Rigs
 
Polling my email for results, has resulted in only 2 or 3 people telling me they lost power or did not gain any installing these injectors. I think you might be on to something, that some '89 or '90 engines might have some 4 very-large hole injectors in them, and these do not provide a power increase. However, I do have to point out something. Cummins supercedes the new, 7mm injectors with sleeves in place of the older 9 mm injectors, and I have not heard of a power loss in doing so. Since I don't work in a shop anymore, I no longer have access to the Cummins crossover charts to see precisely what crosses to what.

For those of you who have experienced a power loss, it is certain that calibrating your pump for the '92-'93 spec will result in a serious power increase. It is true that the earlier pumps did have a lower fuel output, but memory fails as to just how much it is.

Piers, I look forward to reading your dyno results... Hopefully they will reflect what the seat-of-the-pants dyno experiences have indicated.

On a further note, I'd like to point out that it also appears that unless you advance the timing a bit, the performance improvements don't seem to be as much. I have no idea why this is - as it seems to contradict my fuel system theories. Piers, perhaps your dyno runs might include some carefully checked timing settings along with the injector change.



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ICQ 3807791 Power Wagon
Please visit Land Speed Record Pages at www.my2kcity.com/lsr
Email powerwagon@my2kcity.com
Forum moderator and Procrastinator extraordinaire...
Mark Koskenmaki
 
It's good to hear from you POWER WAGON.
Your injectors in my '93 are still fantastic: Engine starts in a flash, smoke is totally controllable by driving technique, power is woo-hoo fun, and fuel consumption CAN BE at least as good as stock.

I did a "full load" test in 4th gear at 1500 rpm using the brakes to hold rpm steady and I obtain 20 psi at 1500 rpm-and, yes, the brakes do get hot fast!
Thanks again for finding these inectors.

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'93 W350 Club Cab, Bright White, 5 sp. , 132K, Factory Options: LE, 4. 10 Limited Slip, 7600 lb. rear springs, tachometer, front stabilizer bar. Mods: Banks stinger plus, Linex bedliner, 25,000 lb gooseneck ball, 10,000 lb receiver, Tekonsha brake controller, POWER WAGON injectors-WAY faster than stock!.
 
i put my pw's in on 93 w/ pump up by collins
diesel, banks turbo. psi 23 to 28
not a lot more power, just more boost and
will easely do 40 in 3rd w/ nv 4500
running 235' 16 tires on duelly
with more stock but pump up only went
about 35 in 3rd, at 40 still pulling now
i also made my inj puller for $5. 00 easy
mopar bill

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1993 w350 ex cab, banks,
open exaust, pw Injectors are in. Big rig flaps,tach soon to be in. Its loud and goes ok, for a 93,only beat 1 pwr strk furd
 
Hey Piers,
Are those the same BD injectors Lil'Dog is running in his 89? I'm interested in your dyno results. I'm also interested in what kind of injector Big Don is running in Old Blue. It sounds like I've got it narrowed down to these two.

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89 D-250 LE 5 speed 3. 55 Limited slip, K&N, straight piped, Boost/Pyro. & 16cm2 215K and still going. 91 W-250 5 speed, 4. 10 Limited slip, 16cm2, 6" Skyjacker lift, RS9000, Dump bed, 18K original mi.
 
DJP
These are the 180hp injectors from BD in BC. Prior to the injectors the stockers were getting about 19 Psi boost. After the BD injector install it was around 21 - 22 Psi. Then some careful adjustments to the diaphram and the star wheel and the boost now rockets to 24 Psi (26 today -5°F). The fuel delivery screw has not been changed from the 19 Psi setting.
All in all the increase was very pleasing for the money spent and its a whole new truck with that power. I thought I was missing out hearing the PW raves, but as it turns out I'm not. For '89, I highly recommend them FWIW.

(edit) The boost numbers are at full load at 2500 RPM, basically the biggest hill I can find and floor it. I still have the 18. 5cm2 housing.

Jeh

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Jason Hoffman
Lil' Mack - 89 D250LE 5 Spd 3. 54 Reg Cab. K&N,"tweaked pump", BD Injectors, Banks Pyro/Boost, 3. 5" Exst tail section straight. E&M Custom seats. Bosch H4, PIAA 80W/80W HdLites. 100W Drv,55W Fogs. 237,500 miles (380,000 Kms) 7850 Hrs.
Cummins Power Booster member.
The Original Turbo Diesel

Lil' Mack Pics

[This message has been edited by Lil' Dog (edited 12-13-2000). ]
 
The ones I'm testing right now are not the same as the ones in Jason's truck. I have a 92 with a 14 housing & BD inj. on the dyno right now. We'll run opacity and HP & torque levels as is & then pop these monsters in and see what happens. Should have it done around 4:30 I'll let you guys know right after. I'm still looking for a 89-91. 5 non intercooled stock truck [like there's any of those left around here] to test these on. If I can't get one soon I'll be looking for a vollunteer #ad


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Piers, BD engine R&D
 
Okay, one change to the above entry, this truck still had stock inj. in it.
92 4x4 5spd with K&N, BD exhaust & 14 wastegate turbo housing, pump tweeked lightly
178. 2 hp @ 2320rpm
447. 8 torque @ 1760rpm
changed just injectors
232. 4 hp @ 2260 rpm
577. 0 torque @ 1760 rpm
54. 2 hp increase #ad

129. 2 ft. lbs. #ad


Ran out of time for opacity testing but will do it & a fuel mileage check later on this week. If I can't get ahold of a non intercooled truck does anyone want to vollunteer for testing?


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Piers, BD engine R&D
 
Piers,
Pretty impressive dyno results, but this was done with a 92 model, with factory intercooler. The Powerwagon injectors are probably netting close to the same results. It seems the pre 91. 5 model years are a completely different animal, and probably will not net such impressive results.

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89 D-250 LE 5 speed 3. 55 Limited slip, K&N, straight piped, Boost/Pyro. & 16cm2 215K and still going. 91 W-250 5 speed, 4. 10 Limited slip, 16cm2, 6" Skyjacker lift, RS9000, Dump bed, 18K original mi.
 
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