Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Question about 0216 code.

[Dodoro]

My FASS quit working a week ago and I replaced it with a new FASS pump, 95 gph. I did idle the truck less than 5 minutes to get off of the interstate. I have noticed the engine feeling soft at speeds above 45 mph. Other than running the engine without the FASS working what does the 0216 code really telling me ?



Thanks in advance for any constructive comments. Dave

 

[Dodoro]

By the way, my fuel pressure gauge always shows 15 - 16 psi at idle and some times drops down to near 0 psi. It has always done that. Even with the old FASS. I installed the gauge the same day I originally installed the first FASS.
I figured I had air in the line that connects to the fuel pressure sensor. The gauge is an electric gauge I purchased from Geno's. the first FASS pump lasted about 6 or 7 years.

I think I read someplace that a bad APPS can cause the 0216 code by giving a bad signal to the VP 44. The APPS is original to my truck.

I have 342,000 plus miles.

Thanks

 

[cerberusiam]

P0216 is the VP-44 death code. If you are getting it and the engine is not feeling right it is a problem. Do you have any APPS codes? If it is far enough off to cause fueling issues it should throw codes.

 

[Dodoro]

No other codes other than the 1693. Thanks for replying cerberusiam

 

[ksmathers]

Look at bluechipdiesel.com under diagnostic help should tell you all you need to know. I have a ddrp at idle 15-16psi at wot never lower then 10. 5 psi

 

[cerberusiam]

No other codes other than the 1693. Thanks for replying cerberusiam

The 1693 with a 0216 is not a good sign for the IP.

The fuel pressure thing is probably the sender being flaky. Where did you place the sender? They do not like mounted to the engine and the vibrations there. Best way is mount the sender off the engine with an isolator like a grease gun hose.

 

[Dodoro]

Thanks again, I mounted the sender on the fire wall, above and outboard of the master cylinder/hydro boost.
I did read bluechipdiesel.com last night and I helped explain a lot of the system and the common problems.
I started looking thru the advertisers on TDR at the different price ranges for a VP 44.

 

[Sticks]

P0216 is the VP-44 death code...

Speaking from 9 years of experience working on 98. 5-2002 Dodges/5. 9 ISB Cummins powered things... . NO IT'S NOT!



There are only 2 guaranteed death codes (which I can not remember at the moment, and lack the desire to look them up).



I've lost count of the Dodges that have come in with a 0216 and a dead transfer pump that stayed clear after the transfer pump was replaced/upgraded. Do the repairs to get the fuel pressure above 10psi at max load, and see how it goes. If the 0216 comes back, then you have a VP on deaths door.



ETA - This is excluding any drive-ability issues that are not throwing any codes. A idle to WOT test is a good way to confirm a dieing VP.



Engine at operating temps. Fuel pressure in the acceptable range. In neutral/park, e-brake applied, from idle mash the throttle to the floor. The tack should have a smooth sweep all the way to redline (don't worry about holding it there, Cummins refers to this as "High Idle"). If the tach is jumpy or hesitates - you'll hear it in the engine as well then you have an issue. Repeat watching the exhaust through the passenger side mirror. White smoke or coughing is another bad sign. Black is OK. Coughing while at high idle is also another indicator.



Now if it fails this test, this could also mean air in the fuel (leak somewhere between the tank and the VP). Gotta make sure you are not sucking air into the fuel which can be confirmed by using a section of clear hose at the VP inlet, or a gauge with a bleeder port.

 

[VolsFan]

Dont the fass 95 gph pumps have a lifetime warranty? Definitely agree, get the fuel delivery figured out before contemplating buying a new vp. I also have my sender mounted at the same location, are you using a snubber?Something isnt right if it will drop to nearly zero. Jlandry really helped me out with installation tips on my electric fuel pressure gauge.

 

[cerberusiam]

Verify your fuel pressure with a manual gauge first to make sure it is not a failed LP. Its possible that is the cause of the codes, I just never got that lucky. Whne those 2 codes came up together eventually an IP was the solution.

 

[bboxall]

OK. About 2 years ago I had 140,000 miles on a completely stock truck. I add a fuel pressure gauge and discover that i have very little fuel pressure under load. (Truck had new lift pump and new injection pump at 92k miles.
SO, I replaced the stock lift pump with a FASS DDRP. With this change the fuel pressure was 16 psi at idle and 14 psi towing bass boat up hill.
Now I have 162,000 miles on the truck and returning from a fishing trip today I got dead pedal at 1500 rpm in 5th gear several times. No acceleration, no response to added throttle just still pulling steady but rpm going up very slightly. Then at 1700 rpm the power comes back and it accelerates. I get home and check the codes and I've got 0216.

Did my stock lift pump damage my injection pump with low pressure 20k ago and now it is shot?

 

[cerberusiam]

Probably did it in with low fuel pressure. The VP-44 is a flaky creature, sometimes it will survive a low fuel pressure event for 10's of thousands, other times it is toast then and there. It all depends on how hot it got at the time it was low on fuel pressure and scored the shaft that sets the fuel delivery. Could also be the electronics have finally given up in the pump.

 

[bboxall]

Cerberusiam, I think you are right. For a couple of thousand miles I swear the truck throttle has been 'bouncy' or in other words throttle changes as I'm driving that I'm not doing with the pedal. Almost like a surge that you would get if you added about 1/16" of pedal movement.
Anyway, with the FASS DDRP pump 2 years old and still making 16 psi at idle and 14 towing the bass boat I'm figuring my VP44 is toast since it throws 0216 regularly.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Sticks]

Cerberusiam, I think you are right. For a couple of thousand miles I swear the truck throttle has been 'bouncy' or in other words throttle changes as I'm driving that I'm not doing with the pedal. Almost like a surge that you would get if you added about 1/16" of pedal movement.

That may be your APPS going TU. Mine did the same thing. Fought it for 2 years before it finally gave it up and died on my leaving a stoplight (fun). No amount of my taking it to the dealer to diagnose would get them to do anything without a code. Even when I brought in a graph - had my own PC based OBD II scanner that would plot the throttle position/demand that looked like a seismograph from an earthquake when I had cruise control set for 5 miles on dead flat highway. Throttle position varied 20% every couple of seconds. I've got a thread in here about it somewhere.

Anyway, with the FASS DDRP pump 2 years old and still making 16 psi at idle and 14 towing the bass boat I'm figuring my VP44 is toast since it throws 0216 regularly.

Thanks for the input!

If you have constant good pressure and you are still getting the 0216, then your VP is likely done. All the 1693 is, is that there is a companion code stored in the other module. Most generic scanners do not read both modules. If your truck is set up for the Key on/off trick to show codes in the odometer window... then you can see both codes.

From the diagnostic manual;
POSSIBLE CAUSES
OTHER DTC'S PRESENT - P0336, P1287, or P1690
FUEL INJECTION PUMP
FUEL INJECTION PUMP GEAR NOT ALIGNED
FUEL FILTER RESTRICTED
TRANSFER PUMP INLET LINE RESTRICTED

 

[cerberusiam]

That may be your APPS going TU. Mine did the same thing. Fought it for 2 years before it finally gave it up and died on my leaving a stoplight (fun).

You never got any codes for APPS performance? Thats just plain weird because the 98 and 01 we have\had would throw APPS codes and never exhibit issues unless they totally died.

 

[mfurrh55]

My 01 would start surging, and when i killed the motor, it wouldn't start until it cooled down, wound up being the control module thats attached to the IP, the Ip was good, but you couldn't just replace the module, had to buy a new IP to get the module , mechanic said if it ever happened again to pour some water on it to get it to start, said it will cool it down quicker, Monte

 

[Dodoro]

Thanks Sticks. I have read tons of posts, articles and recommendations over the last few days. I'm wondering if it really is the VP or APPS or both. I'm taking it in this Thursday and having it checked out. (Not a dealer)

 

[Sticks]

Sorry, email notification of posts is not working for me.



Yes, my APPS gave me fits late spring to late fall - temperature related, typically after half an hour of driving. On hot days it would start up as soon as the engine reached operating temps. Even sitting at a stoplight the engine would ramp up 50 to 200 rpm for a second or two and would show on the OBDII like the pedal was depressed.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?94946-Autopsy-of-an-APPS&highlight=apps+autopsy

 

[Bob4x4]

Sorry, email notification of posts is not working for me.

Yes, my APPS gave me fits late spring to late fall - temperature related, typically after half an hour of driving. On hot days it would start up as soon as the engine reached operating temps. Even sitting at a stoplight the engine would ramp up 50 to 200 rpm for a second or two and would show on the OBDII like the pedal was depressed.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?94946-Autopsy-of-an-APPS&highlight=apps+autopsy

The manual trans trucks see the rpm issue with apps the Autos do not

 

[bboxall]

I just put a re-manufactured injection pump on the truck and she runs like a Swiss watch now. No codes, no dead pedal and she'll get off the porch and run with the big dogs now.