question about GVWR and GAWR

[amauri]

Hello,
Looking at the 2018 2500 towing guide numbers I see following numbers for my 2018 CC 2WD 68RFE:

- GVWR is 10,000 lbs
- F-GAWR is 5,500
- R-GAWR is 6,500

Adding up those numbers it looks like it is possible to be well over the 10k-lbs GVWR, but still well under the max GAWR of 12k-lbs for both axles combined.

We stopped by a truck stop this last trip and got a weight reading on the triple platform Cat scale.
With a full fuel tank, three occupants in the truck and all our usual stuff in the 5th wheel.

Steer Axle = 4900 lb
Dive Alxe = 5190 lb
Trailer Axle = 9230 lb
Total Axle = 19320 lb

Looks like I am 90 lbs over GVWR but well under GAWR, but if I take on another passenger or carry more stuff in the truck or front of the 5th, I will be significantly over GVWR.

I never thought much about the weight because the back of the truck still sits a little higher on the rear after the 5th is hitched up. The trailer is also perfectly level and the whole thing tows down the road very nicely.

I'm working on re-locating things to lighten the load over the back of the truck to get the numbers looking better.

 

[lpennock]

Federal law states that the manufacture GVWR must be less than the sum of the two Gross axle weight ratings. GVWR is really a bogus number that is more of a guide than anything else. Important number is the GAWRs as that is usually determined by the tire ratings. Exceeding the Tire ratings opens you up to blow outs so you want to be diligent about that number.

Bottom line is don't worry about GVWR rating unless you are traveling in Canada. Their laws specifically state you can't exceed GVWR but even then they don't enforce it for an RV unless you are obviously overloaded. (i.e. rear bumper dragging the ground.)

 

[Jim W]

X2; Actually all I worry about is GAWR on my truck and the tire ratings. I changed my tires to LT285/70R 17 126R Nitto Dura Grapplers. These have a higher tire rating than the standard E rated 17 inch tire. These are rated for 3750 LBS at 80 PSI all other 17" tires are rated for 3195 at 80 PSI. This is why the new 4th gen trucks are using 18" or 20" tires on the SRW trucks because of a higher load rating than most of the 17" tires have.

 

[lpennock]

^^^

TRA mandates that all new 17" designs have a maximum weight rating of 3195. The only 17" that exceed 3195 are grandfathered designs. So go to 18 to get additional load ratings.

 

[RVTRKN]

Advertized GAWR's are the only number DOT cares about. Legaly, DOT doesn't reconize tire ratings that exceed the original data plate info on your door sticker. But with that being said, as long as your not grossly overweight with tires rated higher than that of the door data plate, DOT will not care. This is allways argued here in TDR, but none the less, DOT officers can make you remove your excessive weight from your axles, before allowing you to continue. BUT KEEP IN MIND that Ram can void warranty when over Rams GVWR.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I call BS on exceeding GVWR voiding warranty.

How can I load my DRW to its SAE RAWR of 9,750# and not add a single # to my front axles factory weight of 5,250# an not exceed 14k GVWR???

Stay within the axle ratings and license to cover trucks actual loaded weight.

 

[gsbrockman]

Advertized GAWR's are the only number DOT cares about. Legaly, DOT doesn't reconize tire ratings that exceed the original data plate info on your door sticker. But with that being said, as long as your not grossly overweight with tires rated higher than that of the door data plate, DOT will not care. This is allways argued here in TDR, but none the less, DOT officers can make you remove your excessive weight from your axles, before allowing you to continue. BUT KEEP IN MIND that Ram can void warranty when over Rams GVWR.

Are you referring to a non-commercial or a commercial setting?

 

[RVTRKN]

Commercial and private is GAWR, now enforcing it as "not for hire", is another story.

Well I have personal experiance on Ram trying to void warranty as well as getting out of the lemon law being over the GVWR. My company truck had many major problems and was bought back by Ram, not only did they buy back the truck, they had to pay for the service bed that was purchased for it as well. I had it weighed in its wet weight, more for my curiosity than necessity, mainly because it didn't seem to shift correctly. I allways had issues with the 68rfe and 3:42, as most of you have read my posts in the past, its a long story. Well that weight was close to 10K lbs give or take a few pounds, but not over the GVWR. The owner has the certifacate so I can't post it here. Besides, after I gave him a two week notice while it was at the dealership again, we haven't talked since. So Ram did try that in court, but that certifacate negated their claim.

 

[gsbrockman]

Commercial and private is GAWR, now enforcing it as "not for hire", is another story.

Well......having asked a similar question at two weigh stations in TN (Knoxville and Brownsville, both on I-40) and one in KY (London, I-75) I can assure you that CVE officers do not look at GAWR. They look at tire capacities, in both single and dual configurations, based on whether the power unit is SRW or DRW.

CVE [that I have talked to] :

• Do not reference FAWR
• Do not reference RAWR
• Do not reference GVWR
• Do reference tire capacities.

This conversation came about in regards to my questioning some one ton DRW pickups pulling these mini 5-6-7 car hauler trailers.

Some I’ve seen on the road would had to have been over the power unit’s RAWR and truck’s GVWR......

 

[sag2]

Just because the service bed itself was within the specified weight, does not mean the customer did not overload it. I have seen more than a few utility or service bed equipped trucks loaded with so much stuff that a 10 or 12k hoist would not lift them. That is why some warranties get voided.

 

[AH64ID]

Here in Idaho all that matters is registered weight and tire capacity.

GVWR is only listed in the glossary section of the state statues. GAWR only applies to TAG axles.

Don’t exceed your tire rating and drive safe.

 

[TFucili]

Well......having asked a similar question at two weigh stations in TN (Knoxville and Brownsville, both on I-40) and one in KY (London, I-75) I can assure you that CVE officers do not look at GAWR. They look at tire capacities, in both single and dual configurations, based on whether the power unit is SRW or DRW.

CVE [that I have talked to] :

• Do not reference FAWR
• Do not reference RAWR
• Do not reference GVWR
• Do reference tire capacities.

This conversation came about in regards to my questioning some one ton DRW pickups pulling these mini 5-6-7 car hauler trailers.

Some I’ve seen on the road would had to have been over the power unit’s RAWR and truck’s GVWR......

I saw a 3500 DRW on I-17 southbound near Camp Verde today with a loaded five car hauler. It was a swinging load, for sure.

 

[RVTRKN]

Just because the service bed itself was within the specified weight, does not mean the customer did not overload it. I have seen more than a few utility or service bed equipped trucks loaded with so much stuff that a 10 or 12k hoist would not lift them. That is why some warranties get voided.

Thats what FCA tried to claim, but the certified weght reciept I had turned in, was paid for by my Company Credit card. The owner managed to find it, and used it as evidence. When I weighed it, it was fully equiped and had a full tank of fuel, and just under the GVWR.

 

[Jim W]

A little side note on this subject. Over on the RV threads such as Forest River and IVR2 forums, you should see what all of the "EXSPERTS" are constantly stating. I have given up and I do not respond to them anymore, but they claim and even some have proof (but can't produce it when asked for) that the DOT stations check the vehicle placards and will issue you citation for being over your payload weight, Gross vehicle weight and so forth. I am just saying what they tell everyone that this is gospel and go forth and sin no more!

By the way the engineer term for "EXSPERTS" is "EX" is an unknown quaintly and "SPERT" is a drip under pressure.

 

[Cummins12V98]

"Over on the RV threads such as Forest River and IVR2 forums"

HA, I was permantely banned from IRV2 because I was in a debate with a moderator "SmokyWren" and he insisted I was breaking the law running over my 14k GVWR.

They used another lame reason to ban me, really quite pathetic!

 

[amauri]

Thanks everyone for the replies and logical reasoning.

 

[DHayden]

A guy on the RV forum that works for TX DOT said they look at your GAWR and Tire rating. If your not over either of those they dont care about anything else. Seems all states differ.

 

[RVTRKN]

It depends a lot on the officer, if your looking legal and scale what they would deem normal, no issue as long as your not grossly over your axle rating. This subject has been discussed many times with a lot of different opinions. Think about about a axle that has a 2K GAWR rating then installing tires that have 2500 lb rating totaling 5K lbs, I think you’ll get attention you don’t want.

 

[Jim W]

A guy on the RV forum that works for TX DOT said they look at your GAWR and Tire rating. If your not over either of those they dont care about anything else. Seems all states differ.

I believe that this pertains to someone who is hauling for hire, not someone who is an RVER! Since private vehicles are not required to enter the scale houses. Although I am not stating that they can not weigh you if you look grossly overweight.

 

[RVTRKN]

C&C trucks in Comifornia are considered true commercial trucks and registration of them is to get weighed and DECLARE your GCVW. They don’t care about private or commercial. You must also apply a 2” square number (what your declared GCW is) with dated tags above that number, to your door. Your also required to go through the scales regardless. As posted earlier, I ignored that, and with private use at 23K GCVW registered at 15 GCW, I was in grey law. Had a trooper pulled me over towing my private RV, I could have been in trouble. CHP never questioned me and drove past me without worry, it doesn’t mean I was in the right. The cost was outrageous to register it at that weight. All regular pickups don’t worry about it unless you declare it as Commercial use only.

You need to check with your State for rules regarding what the OP asked us. I would have never purchased a C&C truck with what I know now.