Question about House vote on use of force

[Murle]

Does anyone know which Rep. voted not to use force against the terriorists???



We need to know who this person is and make a example out of him. The people in his voting state needs to know about his vote.

 

[Crash_AF]

One of the female representatives from California. Saw her speech on CSPAN last night. She wants cooler heads to prevail and people to think about what the response should be.



Found her info...



Barbara Lee, Democrat, 9th District, Oakland California on the Financial Services and International Relations committees.



Her office number is (202)225-2661 and her office mailing address is



The Honorable Barbara Lee

426 Cannon HOB

Washington, DC 20515-0509



You can check out the going's on in the House at:

http://www.house.gov/



And in the Senate at:

http://www.senate.gov/



Later,

Joe

 

[Murle]

Thanks , I think I will send her a can of "whoop ***".

 

[roadranger]

Hi Joe- Glad to see you made it to the East Coast OK. Did you get the fuel pump repaired in Denver by the rebuilder?

Good luck with your new assignment.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Political suicide!

I wonder if the elected officials that either voted no or abstained realize that they have committed political suicide. They will be lucky if they get elected to the School Board.



-Cliff

 

[rich m]

...unanimity is kinda suspicious...

If I'd been there, and seen what looked like a unanimous vote, I'd have done like I saw one old coot do in a movie... .

Wait until mine is the last vote, then go on record as agreeing, but casting one dissenting vote, just to prevent the enemy from being able to accuse our governmental mechanism from being suborned to a newly titled King, or dictator, or some other such negative title.



However, I'm convinced this was NOT Barbara Lee's motivation.

 

[Champane Flight]

Resolve.

How much resolve does America have?Do we have the resolve to continue war after the body bags of our sons and daughters start coming home?Do we have the resolve to commit to occupying a middle eastern country and continue to send and keep and lose troops there indefinitly?Do we have the resolve to loose even more people here in the USA by acts of terorism?This is what our country asks of us,do YOU have the resolve?



To rattle sabers is one thing,to wage war is another. If anyone thinks that just arresting Bin-Laden will end this,you had better think again. There are thousands just like him waiting to take his place. Hit Afagistan?Yea,Russia did that and lost 100,000 men. This will not be easy folks. We Americans have big heads,when in reality we have not won a war since WW2. Desert storm was not won because we didn't take the country or the madman out of power.



That is one of differences between us and our enemy. They do not have any honor or value of human life. They also have been brainwashed to believe that this is a holy war. We have to wage the same on them,we will have to convince them that our god is more powerful than theirs. This will be rough... . Do YOU have the resolve?Did this woman vote her emotion or her heart?

 

[DRR-24V]

Champain Flight,

What do you want to do? Just roll over and give this country to the terrorists? We have no choice in this situation forced on us. We will either win or we will lose. If we do nothing, our children will have to live under the threat of it happening again.

 

[sonorakitch]

Champagne Flight-



I disagree with you, especially on two points. First, there may be many Bin Laden supporters that are standing in line to take his place, but none with $250,000,000 at his disposal. Secondly, Russia fought the Afghan war in the same way we fought in Vietnam... a trickle instead of a gush. Russia used Helicopters and ground troops. B-52s will eliminate the need for massive ground troops.



I do agree that we will lose some men. However, this is the price to pay for freedom and peace of mind. I, for one, will enlist in the event of a major war (I am 22 years old and able); I prefer to give my life for my country now than giving the life of my brother's son working in his office on the lower tip of Manhattan someday because we did nothing now.



History will judge us all on the decision whether or not to strike today or be struck tomorrow.



~Chris

 

[dmurdock]

champagne flight raises a valid point

I think your taking his comments the wrong way. It's easy to sit around and say let's kick some A$$!!!!



But, to truly disable terrorism will require a large sacrifice on our part.



I for one agree that this sacrifice must be made. But I think I have a clear idea as to what I'm agreeing to. Also, it's pretty easy for me, I'm not in the military and don't have any children/relatives in the military either.



I saw an interview this morning with the former prime minister of israel, and his comments were right on the mark. .



1-Terrorism cannot survive if it has no country/countries to support it. Think about it, If the terrorists have no place to train, no place to safely recruit, no place to hide out, they are in a tough spot. Unfortunately this is currently not the case. Unfortunately for us, many of these countries are working at a fever pitch to become nuclear powers. Some of them (pakistan for one), already is. Now that I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER is scary! If you can smuggle boatloads of drugs into the US, a small nuke would be no problem. How about 20 of those things going off at the exact same time over here (man, i'm scarin myself).



2-If you agree with #1, then you must realise to end or render terrorism a minor threat, you must change the leadership of every country which supports terrorism... there's a bunch of 'em, folks.



3-If you agree with #2, then to be successful, we must engage in a multi-national (I can't stress that part enough), ongoing (ie:forever) vigil against terrorism. Cruise missiles, smart bombs, etc... won't solve the problem here, they might make you feel good, but they won't solve the problem.



4-If you agree with #3, you must accept the fact that our servicemen/servicewomen will be captured/tortured/shown on video by the enemy/killed. Are you prepared for this?





Like I said before, I am mentally prepared to accept all of these things to preserve the freedom of the free world, but this will be a very hard pill to swallow.







ps. . We could just nuke the entire middle-east, but that is a little too scary for me, at least for now.

 

[Champane Flight]

Another point.

My wife made another point. These are religious fanatics who preach hate and intolerance(there are a few of those here in the USA). The fact that Bin Laden is arrested will not change a thing,his moneys are already in the and for the cause. I am sure he will pass it along to one of or many of his followers,if he is detained or killed.





We had B-52s in Vietnam,there were massive bombing raids everyday and night there. Not to mention over 500,000 troops. In an area half the size of California. It didn't work. The Russians had massive bombing too. It doesen't take a lot of money to wage a terorist attack. The proof of it lies in the rubble of the WTC. Eight knives and eight airplane tickets!These men were hiding in plain site!With jobs and houses in Florida and California. You CANNOT win a war against a guerilla/terrorist with conventional troops. Unless of course you want to NUKE em. Then you will lose all support from the rest of the allies. Its not like go into the country and shoot everyone in a terrorist uniform.....



Whether you like it or not this is going to be a rough one boys and girls. I have already been down to the recruiters. The Sargent told me that I was a little old,but the last recruiter was out of line telling me "They would take the women and children first".

 

[illflem]

I agree with Champ 100%. After serving in Vietnam and visiting Afghanistan in the late '60s I would much prefer Vietnam. Afghanistan is a vast mountainous country with many easy to defend positions and well protected caves, if we send in ground troops it is sure to be a long drawn out war with causalities to our forces that will dwarf the WTC attack. The Moslems would love nothing more than to die in a holy war, instant heaven for them. Once we start we will end up taking on most of the Middle East, you can't trust the countries that say they are on our side right now especially if we start killing innocent Moslems who have nothing to do with terrorism and just want to live their lives in peace. We will end up trying to fight without the oil supply our military runs on. My feeling is the Trade Center attack was intended to egg us on to war even more than it was to inflict damage and it seems to be working. My feeling is also that the only way to wipe out terrorism is through intelligence and infiltrating their organizations and destroying them from within, a much too slow method to satisfy America's current desire for instant revenge. I trust our leaders realize this and will act accordingly. Just my 2¢.

 

[DieselDoghouse]

It will take the cooperation of alot of countries, including muslim nations - but many are already assenting since terrorism can quickly be directed against their governments (or has been??). I sense others remain distant because they anticipate hatred and distrust for what they believe in - whoa!! We all need to take a look at this, 'cause sooner or later we will need a cliff notes course in Islam. Islam teaches (in essence) the books of the Bible and the Torah since Moses, Jesus, etc were the prophets that preceeded Mohammed. Heck, they consider Abraham to be the first Muslim!! When you look at the 5 pillars of Muslim its a 'rewrite' of the 10 Commandments and Judaic teachings on Just, Devout living! [Seems like everybody fasted over there in the hottest months - guess the food went bad pretty fast!] I've yet to see where the Koran actually dictates 'go and kill all the Jews and Christians you can and you'll be more holy'. When you look at the substance all 3 religions look like dictation taken by three secretaries from one Supreme Being - kind of eerie in a neat way. Maybe if we can get the civilized world in all its faiths at the table, we can solve this problem of the uncivilized world - and the attitudes which no one's faith teaches!!

 

[Champane Flight]

Xactly!

You hit it on the head DDD,the religion itself does not teach hate and intolerance. It is the people. People have tryed to jack up religion since the begining of time. I think the good lord screwed up when he went one step farther than the ten comandments and gave us readable text,Bible,Koran,and Torah. This gave every idiot out there an excuse to interpet it into their own little axe to grind. Some of these are in our own country. The sad part of it is,that a lot of people believe them.



Maybe we should have a debate with these terrorists on the interpetation of their good book. I wish it could be solved that easily. MMM,maybe it could. The he11 with conventional warfare,hello Psy ops... ..... Drop bibles on their heads,and play rock and roll to em every night... ... . Just a another crazy idea... ...

 

[sonorakitch]

Champagne Flight,



Yes, I see some of your point. I certainly would rather not engage Afghanistan, but I think we will have to. The difference between Vietnam and Afghanistan I see is that Vietnam was handled horribly by our leaders (I think we can all agree with that). The major bombing didn't begin until the Nixon Adminstration, and by then, it was a lost cause. I am optimistic the lesson was learned, and any operation in Afghanistan would be successful in removing the Taliban government. It will be very difficult for the Taliban to fight a civil war with a mass of Northern Alliance (pro-west) forces outside of Kabul. At the point of removing the terrorist-friendly Taliban, Bin Laden would have a much more difficult time conducting terrorist training, etc. I feel this is the best and only alternative. The only way coordinated, sophisticated attacks to be carried out against the United States by Bin Laden (or another well-funded terrorist leader, which doesn't exist now) is to be harboured in a friendly nation. There are only a handful of these around the world. Not saying it will be easy, but I think it is an attainable idea. I am not suggesting a full occupation of Afghanistan, just essentially aid the rebel forces of the Northern Alliance with carpet-bombing, funds, intelligence, cruise missiles, and any other means to bring the Taliban to its knees.



I may be optimistic, but I think Bin Laden is history. While I agree there are other terrorists around the world, I don't think any today have the means to conduct the operation which brought down the towers. We will still see the occasional hijacking, car bomb, and other tragic events, but it will be very difficult from a logistics standpoint to stage such a disasterous strike such as this one.



I am young, and I didn't live in the Vietnam War. But I have studied history and learned that every time this nation is hammered by something; everytime this nation is brought down to the point of depression, everytime this nation faces an uncertain future, she always comes through, with a flag flying higher than ever. I just hope history repeats itself.



~Chris

 

[John]

patriotism without question!

Originally posted by sonorakitch

I prefer to give my life for my country now than giving the life of my brother's son working in his office on the lower tip of Manhattan someday because we did nothing now. ~Chris

... sounds very close to, "Give me liberty or give me death. "



You brought tears to my eyes Chris. You see, I have had grave doubts that the younger generation actually cared about anything... at least enough to do something positive about it.

 

[sonorakitch]

Thanks John. I too thought young people today had no regard for the freedoms they enjoy and no respect for the sacrifices made in the past. At this University, there is always a protest or rally detesting a practice by our government, corporate robbery, or some other righteous thing. Following the events on Tuesday, however, there has been a very noticable change on campus. It is now considered "cool" to be patriotic. While it may not last, it is certainly nice now.



~Chris