Question for an Electrician

[dmurdock]

Here's the story. .



I had a plug in my house that had been intermittently failing and went out. I didn't know it was failing because I have a battery-backup for my computer plugged into it and every once in a while it would "beep". It beeps sometimes when it is checking the battery, but now that I think about it I believe the power was going off and on (maybe not, my guess).



Anyway the whole circuit went dead so I replaced the breaker (it's not a gfi circuit, and it's a standard 20 amp GE breaker).



Now that the breaker is replaced, part of the circuit works, but part doesn't. I'm thinking possibly a plug has gone bad but I'm not quite sure this ever happens... does it?



Also, is there anything relating to why a plug would go bad and a breaker? (can a bad plug put a load on a braker that makes it go bad?).



ps. . The bad breaker was not tripped when I checked it (I set it back and forth a bunch with no use, but initially when I checked it it wasn't tripped).

 

[JApol]

Secure the circuit that is having the problem and anyother circuits that are in that room for safety sake. I've taken 110 60hz, 220 60hz, 115 400hz, 28 VDC and 12 VDC. That crap hurts. I would hate to hear about you doing the 60hz shuffle frome something I suggested.

Pull out all of the outlets that are on the trouble circuit. Take out the center screw between the plugd to remove the cover. You will then see 2 screws at the top and bottom, this is what keeps the plug secured to the electrical box. Loosen these enough so that the plug assembly is free. No need to completally remove the screws from the plug. Pull the plug out of the wall carefully but firmly. Once it is out check the wire nuts and any other connections to make sure they are tight. Keep doing this untill you have found the problem. It might be the computer plugin. If you still can't find the problem, call and electrician and DO NOT RE-ENERGIZE THAT CIRCUIT. You may have a wiring problem, if it is you might burn your place down.



Happy hunting



P. S. How many things are plugged into your UPS or power strip?

 

[cap-n-cray]

I am not an electrician, but a general contractor. So I can do anything. Get a plug tester from Home Depot. Plugs are chained together in parallel. Sounds like one plug is not feeding through to the others. With the tester find the last plug that works and look at the connection on the back side. MAKE SURE THE POWER IS OFF. 110v won't kill you but it will cause you to break something and the shock with let you know the power of electricity. 220v will kill you. I drop neutrals all the time. The neutral goes back to ground, but does carry some load. A lot of problems can develop with aluminum wire. It takes special plugs and compound. Copper and aluminum can only be mixed with special stuff, nolux (sp).



Like JApol said check connections. Wire nuts and plugs. Every time current is drawn the wire moves ever so slightly which breaks connections and there is also corrosion.



Cary

 

[Jumbo Jet]

110 volts can kill. It basically depends on how good YOU are grounded.



The higher voltages sometimes will "knock" you away quicker than the 110 volts.



Don't take chances with electricity.

 

[HOBrian]

Buy a good meter to test with. I just zapped myself again (for the 100th time) thinking I had the right breaker. I went out and spent $70 on a basic/good meter. It is an IDEAL 61-360

 

[JApol]

About 6 years ago I spent 24 hours in the hospital for taking a . 2 amp DC hand to hand. I wasn't even touching any wires. A test box was inproperly grounded and when I touched the frame of the box and the airframe. It felt like someone hit both funnybones at the same time.

 

[BigEasy]

Watching someone get shocked is hilarious... being that guy isn't near so funny. :-laf

 

[d906670]

Are you sure the breaker was bad? It sounds like you have a bad connection on one of your plugs. Most residential homes are series ( in and out on the plug). Kill the power and remove each receptacle (plug) and check if the connection are tight, or the wire is stuck in tight on the back of the plug, screws tight, wire in wire nuts and nuts tight.

 

[JApol]

Actually homes are in parrallel. If you wanted to use the last plug in the line you would have to have something in all the other plugs and turned on. The amps would be tremendous. With parallel you can have two 10 amp apliances running but the breaker will only see 5 amps. With series the breaker would be dealing with about 20 amps.

 

[dmurdock]

Are you sure the breaker was bad? It sounds like you have a bad connection on one of your plugs. Most residential homes are series ( in and out on the plug). Kill the power and remove each receptacle (plug) and check if the connection are tight, or the wire is stuck in tight on the back of the plug, screws tight, wire in wire nuts and nuts tight.

Yes, that's whats weird. When it quit working nothing worked, when I replaced the breaker about half worked.

 

[AEzzo]

Recepticles

Check if the recepticle is being used to feed through. I have found this to be a cause of this type of problem. In the box splice all blacks together with a tail comming out for recepticle. Use wire nut to cap off. Usually a yellow works good. Do same with all white wires. leave a tail out to tie into outlet.

Hope this helps.



Angelo IBEW local 102

 

[dmurdock]

Check if the recepticle is being used to feed through. I have found this to be a cause of this type of problem. In the box splice all blacks together with a tail comming out for recepticle. Use wire nut to cap off. Usually a yellow works good. Do same with all white wires. leave a tail out to tie into outlet.

Hope this helps.



Angelo IBEW local 102

Yes, they are all like that. Thanks for the tip, that sounds like a lot better way to set things up.

 

[BigEasy]

Actually homes are in parrallel. If you wanted to use the last plug in the line you would have to have something in all the other plugs and turned on. The amps would be tremendous. With parallel you can have two 10 amp apliances running but the breaker will only see 5 amps. With series the breaker would be dealing with about 20 amps.

Is this correct? I'd like to think I'm a pretty smart guy, and this sounds like BS...

 

[AEzzo]

house wiring

Actually homes are in parrallel. If you wanted to use the last plug in the line you would have to have something in all the other plugs and turned on. The amps would be tremendous. With parallel you can have two 10 amp apliances running but the breaker will only see 5 amps. With series the breaker would be dealing with about 20 amps.

Yes homes are wired parrallel. All you are doing is running the hot and neutral in and out of each device. The breaker will see all 10 Amps.

 

[JApol]

http://www.1728.com/resistrs.htm Look at that site.

 

[AEzzo]

Amps= I ohms =R

Amperage adds together and resistance use the formula on the page you linked to.

 

[djbobo]

Outlets are in parralell but usually 'daisy chained' from one outlet to another.

(voltage remains the same and current (amps) add.

It sounds like you have an open nuetral (white) or open hot (black) An inexpensive plug-in style outlet tester will show an open nuetral but wil not light up at all on an open hot. (it will read the same as a dead outlet).

Most cases will be a loose wire in a wirenut or if they are stabbed into and out of each receptacle - each receptacle will see the full load amps down line of the circuit.

My guess would be this -- the lazy installers stabbed instead of wrapping the wire around the screw.

The best way to wire a receptacle is to pig tail from a wirenut to each outlet to avoid the current from going through each receptacle on it's way to the loads.



djbobo

IBEW 354

 

[BigEasy]

http://www.1728.com/resistrs.htm Look at that site.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what you posted... amps aren't resistance, they're current flow...



If a circuit is using 20 amps, the breaker doesn't care how you have it wired, it sees 20 amps.



AEzzo... are there really people wiring stuff in a manner other than what you described? It sounds like a real good way to burn a house down... your way is the only way I've ever seen or done it.

 

[cap-n-cray]

Yes, BigEasy, people are wiring their house that way. And when they wire something not to code, they don't realize that their insurance company will walk away when there is a fire. If it is not to code how can an insurance company insure the house.



I found a 20 amp breaker behind a microwave screwed to the wall (No Box) with wires coming out of an oven's 220v plug. It was only one side of the 220v and then went to a 110v plug in a box. The wires were taped on. Good thing they used a breaker wouldn't want to overload something. I took a picture of it just to prove it was real. The house had just sold and had passed an inspection. That is where I found out about the neutral caring some of the load. One neutral for several circuits. :--)



AEzzo is correct about wiring a plug and that is the way I do it.



Cary

 

[JApol]

That has absolutely nothing to do with what you posted... amps aren't resistance, they're current flow...

Current, resistance and voltage are related.

voltage=current/resistance. if resistance stays the same and voltage increases amps decrease. If voltage stays the same and resistance increases current(amps) decrease



Thats why most dryers run on 220, they would draw to much current to be real useful, by doubleing the voltage they cut the amps in half.



Edit: Don't you hate it when you think you have someting right and someone corrects you, then you talk to a third person and as your talking you relize your mistake. In a parrallel circuit voltage stays the same, current is additive. If there are two 5 amp loads in a curcuit, the breaker sees 10 amps. I had it in my head that amps worked like resistance in a parallel circuit.