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Racing suspension is here!!!!!!!!!!

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If you ever thought you could run w/ Ivan Stewart or Walker Evans, now is your chance!!!!!!



The latest issue (41) page 56 of the TDR mag is an article about a company called T-rex Engineering. they have designed and engineered the first and only serious "race ready" suspension system for our CTD's.



So last week i was thinking... ... ... they are in San Diego area and our So Cal Rattlers club were meeting in north San Diego county this saturday, hmnnnn... ... ... ... ... . We need to invite these guys to our meeting. they were happy i did and were there bright and early.

:--) :--) :--) This stuff is awesome!!!!!!!! race ready you bet.



2. 5 inch racing shocks that each hold around a half gallon of oil. custom made progressive rate coil springs that provide 2. 5 inches of lift to provide xtra travel for the suspension.



They took around 15 of us for a test ride (3-4 at a time :rolleyes: )



OMG we are talking E-Ticket ride here folks !!!!!!!!!



The first thing that Kent did was attack a curb that made each of us cringe when he went for it. The truck ate it up like nothing!!

Then we entered a construction site. blasted around there like wild men (we even had the superintendants chasing us. Between H/O power and this suspension, they were way out matched.



We then blasted down this road that had holes in it al least a foot deep, ate it up like nothing while at speed(30-40 mph)





This is without a doubt the most advanced suspension system every made for our trucks. and is completely tuneable to anyone's

driving habits or needs. Including camper and trailering applications.



They have around a year and 10000 miles testing this system in Baja mexico at speeds of around 100mph on the bumpy/rocky roads down there.



Thanks Kent for making the first "Serious" suspension system designed for our trucks. They say that if you can break their stuff w/o breaking your truck, they will be impressed and replace there parts for the life of the vehicle. Whoever owns it!!! That is a great warrantee!



I know there are many more guys since saturday that are still shaking there heads.



Greg Goardman would have traded in his dually for a SRW if he had been there and Steve (4byquadrod) missed out on this big time.



This will be on my 04. Guaranteed



:D :D :D



DD
 
:-laf Nothing like a couple of Supers in Chevy's chasing a dodge back to the lair... ... . the look on thir faces when they rounded the corned and saw some 30 Rams parked side by side :-laf :-laf



But seriously- the ride in this truck was unbelievable:eek: :eek: !!Who needs Disneyland?? It was impressive to see what a stock HO 03' could do with just the suspension mods. I would have never believed it without being in the back seat!



If only I had a 4x4... ... .



Many thanks to Kent for showing up on a moments notice to let us check it all out.



Kev
 
And no video's?



No website either as I've heard.



I'd be interested, but money is tight.



Research is free,, guess I could do plenty of that...



Sounds fun.



Any Pictures?



Merrick Cummings Jr
 
T. Rex Engineering

Gents,



Thanks for all the positive comments regarding our suspension system! I had a lot of fun with you guys Saturday. Great food and nice people - some beautiful trucks too. Glad there was some dirt nearby so we could let our project truck's legs stretch a little bit. I'm really looking forward to the next rally, so I can put some smiles on the faces of some more friendly TDR folks. By the way, our website is up and running. It's basic, but it gives some good info about our philosophy and our product. Log on to www.t-rexengineering.comLet'sget so... Regards, Kent Kroeker T. Rex Engineering
 
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Kent,

My hat is off to you :D



The picture of the flying Dodge/Cummins says it all...



I see in your kit -



front coil springs

shocks

limiting straps

spacers??
 
www.t-rexengineering.com



All I can say is WOW. If I had the money, I would do this mod ASAP.



Too bad I'm spending almost the same amount on some 'chargers and injectors...



I am rather dissapointed on how my "lifted" truck drives right now. This is the way to go,, allthough,, I'd hate to give up the heigth.



Merrick Cummings Jr
 
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Originally posted by Dkevdog



If only I had a 4x4... ... .



Same here!! I certainly wouldn't expect such engineering to go into a system for a 4x2 truck but I think us 2-wheel drive guys could benefit from something like this. Just because we don't drive all 4 wheels doesn't mean we don't encounter terrible roads, massive potholes, wicked RR track crossings, and the like. I would be interested in a T-Rex setup for these daily obstacles so I can take them with aplomb and save my truck from taking a pounding. I cross 5 sets of RR tracks each way to work not to mention all the rough roads I take every day. Boy wouldn't it be nice to smooth things out!!



Vaughn
 
I have a few questions for Kent,

I have a ’99 CTD 2500 quad cab short bed 4x4 with camper group and LT 265 75 16 tires, 85%empty use, but run close to 10,000 lbs a few times a year. I think the advantages of your system off road are clear but what are the advantages and disadvantages on highway?

I have 10 miles of 35 mph turns on the road home that I drive fairly aggressively and have been fairly satisfied with the stock capabilities of the truck, does your system improve ,adversely effect, or maintain the on highway high speed handling characteristics?

On some concrete freeways (like I 215 from I 15 to Henderson) I get a severe rhythmic bounce between 65 and 75 mph that no amount of knob turning on those Rancho’s will help. Will your system help this or is it related to the frame length and heavy rear springs? Do you retain the factory front and rear sway bars? Can I retain the overloads?

If your rear shocks are tuned mostly for a light load would they still be better than my Rancho’s set on 5 with a 3000 lb camper on the truck, or do you compromise a bit both ways? Will your system help the rear with stock springs on washboards when running empty? ( I have 5 miles of washboards to drive home)

I have noticed the rear springs, particularly the overloads, on the 2002 trucks are significantly different than my ’99, do the later rear springs perform any better off road? Did the truck these guys rode in have factory rear springs or your lighter use springs? Do you have a ’99 to ’02 truck to demo if I end up in your area?

The higher speed off road characteristics have been the main sore spot with this truck and if this can be improved with little, if any, loss in on highway performance I am very interested.
 
Jrobinson2: I e-mailed Kent almost exactly the same questions. Have not gotten an answer yet.



I too have "a severe rhythmic bounce between 65 and 75 mph that no amount of knob turning on those Rancho’s will help. " Interesting that you have a short bed. I always thought the long beds were worse in regard to this problem.
 
Gentlemen,



I apologize for not responding sooner, but we’ve been very busy lately.



I’ll try to answer all your questions with this post.



Q: Will T. Rex offer a system for the 4x2?

A: We’ve been working on it, but we’re not sure if it’s possible due to the design limitations of the vehicle. We know 4x2 owners need excellent suspension too; it’s just hard to fit everything where it needs to go and still have it work properly.



Q: How does T. Rex suspension perform on the road?

A: Worlds better than OE or any aftermarket system. The difference between OE performance and aftermarket performance is roughly 10 – 15%. And sometimes running an aftermarket shock can be a step backwards in performance because aftermarket shocks were not designed specifically for your Dodge but for many vehicles.



Because, for the most part, suspension is more art than science and therefore subjective, I can’t use concrete empirical data to convey just how good T. Rex suspension is. For example, with engine performance, one can say, “I can boost your horsepower from 300 to 500. ” That can be measured on a dynamometer. You can also measure and compare shock performance on a suspension dynamometer, but the results are meaningless unless you’re familiar with all the concepts upon which that information is based.



Since max-performance street handling of a truck of this size is largely limited by weight, CG, and tire squirm – not to mention speed laws - it’s really hard to generate a hard numbers to convey the amount of improvement we offer. But I’m confidently able to say that the seat of my pants tells me that T. Rex suspension improves high speed stability, cornering flatness, bump isolation, and steering feedback on pavement by roughly 150% over any other suspension product ever offered for this vehicle.



Off-road performance is improved by at least 300% - sometimes more. This statement can be better quantified because of the multiplication of speed our suspension allows. Over most nasty, continuous washboard roads a T. Rex equipped truck can travel at least three times faster than a truck equipped with any OE or any aftermarket suspension product currently offered. In fact, if you were to drive off-road the way many of our clients drive off-road you would break your stock truck in half. I’m not sure what percentage of performance improvement one could attribute to preventing complete destruction of a frame or axle, but I’m sure it would be large. Anyone who has ridden in a T. Rex equipped truck will corroborate these statements.



Q: What about freeway expansion joints? My truck is beating me up on the freeway and my wife won’t speak to me any more until I get it fixed.



A: This is a huge issue. We’ve spent many hours studying this phenomenon. Filming, testing, retesting. We’ve changed everything on trucks just to get them to ride smoothly over expansion joints. It comes down to this: Engineers have to design a pickup truck to handle safely when it’s full of cargo. They devote very little time to designing a comfortable ride when it’s empty; they think about safety when it’s full. They know that the consumer is not going to weigh the load of pea gravel or concrete he’s filling his bed with then shovel some out to match the GVWR of his truck. Whatever cargo capacity your truck is rated for, the factory designs it to handle much more. Your rear springs are hopelessly overbuilt, and to compensate, since you ride closer to the front of the truck, the factory makes your front springs hopelessly soft – so the small, non-repetitive road impacts seem plusher. Because the factory is working within the limitations of low-budget, low-technology OE shocks which have very concrete limitations concerning the dampening characteristics they provide, the heat-related consistency of their performance, and their longevity, the truck’s springs are designed to do most of the work. All this translates into a terrible, unbalanced ride when the truck is empty – and sometimes a terrible ride when the truck is full. Most of our time is spent in an empty truck, so what do we do?



The following is extracted (with explanations added for this post) from the expansion joint study we did two years ago:



This data was generated by filming an unloaded 1999 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 LWB with stock suspension while it crossed expansion joints on the 405 freeway near Long Beach, California at a speed we determined to be outside its “sweet-spot. ” The sweet spot is the best speed (by feel) for functioning of the suspension. The speed we used was the worst speed (by feel) - 67mph. We played the tapes back in slow motion and watched the axle movements relative to the chassis and the pavement. Then we made changes to the suspension based on our assumptions. The changes we made allowed us to scientifically determine what was really going on under the truck.



Event 1 – Front axle hits joint 1, rushes through travel [spring too soft] shock blows off [OE shock provides insignificant high-speed compression dampening]



Event 2 – Rear axle hits joint 1, deflects chassis upwards [spring too stiff], chassis unloads partial weight on rear wheels



Event 3 – Front axle hits joint 2, still riding low in stroke [OE shock is holding front axle up because of too much high-speed rebound dampening] – even less available travel to absorb impact



Event 4 – Rear axle hits joint 2, now downwards momentum of bed forces minor leaf compression. Leaf pack responds, unloading chassis to a higher degree than manifest by Event 1 [spring rate overcomes shock’s rebound dampening]



Event 5 – Front axle hits joint 3, axle touches bump stop, effectively bottoming [no available travel left due to excessive rebound dampening – also known as “packing”], bump stop compression vaults axle away [not enough rebound dampening to keep axle from springing back in a controlled manner]



Event 6 – Rear axle hits joint 3, more downward momentum results in more perceived impact



Event 7 – Front axle hits joint 4, chassis still in upward momentum – lower perceived impact



Event 8 – Rear axle hits joint 4 - replicates Event 6



Event 9 – Front axle hits joint 5 - now has downward momentum [light spring, low compression dampening] axle bottoms harder on bump stop, rebounds faster



Event 10 – Rear axle hits joint 5 – replicates Event 6 but perceived impact is reduced due to weight now biased towards front, since front is deeply loaded



Event 11 – Front axle hits joint 6 – less perceived impact due to lower effective weight on axle – more travel to absorb impact



Event 12 – Rear axle hits joint 6 – weight now biased towards rear, perceived impact greater



As you can see there is an uneven harmonic that develops between both axles. Each axle creates a different pattern due to their respective problems. The front wave has three essential points and the rear has two. Ever wonder why sometimes you don’t feel every expansion joint you see as you drive over them? That’s why. It’s not because some are bigger and some are smaller. It’s the imbalance that causes this mysterious phenomenon. This imbalance is ultimately sent through the truck’s frame and into your wife’s spine. If you change speed or the distance between the joints changes, it upsets the pattern and a new series of problems occurs. If your OE or aftermarket shocks are worn out a new series of problems occurs. If your front springs are sacked out a new series of problems occurs. If you’re running air bags a new series of problems occurs. If you’re towing a new series of problems occurs. If you’re driving a SWB truck, you change the effective distance between the joints and a new series of problems occurs. The event analysis shown above may not even apply to your truck, but each symptom does. I could write at length on each of these issues, but that’s beyond the scope of this study.



I will say that the addition of T. Rex suspension components will make your big, heavy truck more balanced and ride properly over expansion joints - in a way that the factory engineers never imagined possible. I don’t care what year your Ram is, or if you’re running the OE overload springs and/or some Firestone airbags – or if you’re towing a thirty foot fifth wheel trailer. The key is in our front spring and our shock’s progressive dampening that is working together in a way that factory or aftermarket suspension just can’t. Due to your heavy rear leaf pack that must be retained in order to carry a load, you will still feel expansion joints sometimes, but the sensation will be greatly reduced and the imbalanced harmonic totally eliminated



Q: What about the OE sway bars?



A: They work fine, so we keep them. Our philosophy is to retain as much of the stock design as possible, but just improve and modernize the components.



Q: What about the stock overload springs? Are they causing my OE suspension to be harsh?



A: No matter what kind of overload system your Ram is equipped with - over the main pack or under - the overload leaf only comes into effect towards the end of the suspension travel. We suggest you leave them on for towing or heavy loading. They’re not even affecting your ride when the truck is empty because you’re only getting into the first third of the stroke.





I'll get to the rest of the questions in the next post - I think I've exceeded my limit in this one! Yikes - I'm long-winded!
 
Q: Are the shocks used by T. Rex Engineering better than Rancho RS 9000’s?



A: This question makes me smile. The technology and quality of our shock absorbers is so different you can hardly compare the performance of the two. Our system is vastly superior at every speed and in every situation both on and off road. RS 9000’s and most other aftermarket shocks just make the ride stiff because, no matter what setting you use, they can’t flow enough oil through their pistons. Our shocks make the ride plush but controlled, meaning your truck won't feel mushy in the corners and you never have to mess with adjustments because the shock is constantly doing it for you automatically.



Q: Is T. Rex standard valving a compromise?



A: Yes and no.



“Yes” because with our standard front spring and OE rear spring, we can valve a shock to fly an 8000 lb truck six feet in the air and land like it’s falling into a swimming pool filled with marshmallows. The tradeoff is that with this race-oriented valving, one can feel smaller terrain imperfections that shouldn’t be felt on the day to day commute. Hopefully most people will not be jumping their trucks on the way to work, so our standard valving is designed to provide a plush, controlled ride in every situation – high and low speeds on and off-road, towing, hauling and unloaded. And if you get a little “inadvertent air” now and then, you should still be OK. In the “Be Advised” section of our instructions we strictly advise against jumping. It’s dangerous if you don’t have highly developed driving skills. Not many people know how to do it properly because they don’t have enough experience to know when chassis limitations are being reached; they just know when they’ve been reached. That’s why we recommend against it.



When a client has a truck that spends all or most of it’s time towing a heavy fifth wheel or with a heavy camper in the bed, we can make a slight adjustment to the valve stacks. It’s not something the average person could even feel. But we can feel it. Dodge Ram suspension is all we do, so I’m not boasting when I say we’re very good at this. We can make subtle changes that can even improve on our standard valving – but only for a specific application. Even when these clients remove their trailers and campers they still remark how smooth the empty ride is compared to anything else they’ve tried. For the person who uses their truck in a variety of configurations – which means most people – the standard valving works great everywhere.



Relative to components offered by other suspension companies, our standard valving is not a compromise. It was developed over several years, the last year being continuous R and D in every climate and load and road condition. We've used many different tire and wheel combos to test various degress of unsprung weight. Our standard valving works extremely well and is superior to anything else on the market. For those reasons it is not a compromise. This is the best Dodge Ram suspension money can buy.



Q: I only drive my truck empty. Can I buy your light rear leaf pack?



A: Not any longer. For liability reasons we have been advised against further marketing of the complete replacement rear leaf pack. There are companies who make excellent custom leaf packs and we would be glad to consult with you then aim you in their direction should you so desire.



Q: How does the suspension feel on washboard roads?



A: This suspension was developed primarily for Baja – and Baja is nothing but washboard roads of varying degrees – from endless, closely-spaced four inch clay bumps, to endless four foot deep, spread out sand whoops (BIG washboard). Washboard is where this suspension excels. There are places where you won’t even hear the washboard – let alone feel it. The T. Rex suspension just soaks it up, damps it out and turns every bump into heat which is dissipated by the shock.



Q: Can I demo a truck with T. Rex suspension?



A: Of course! We had so much fun giving rides at the last TDR club meeting we’re going to try to attend every event we can! Our project truck is a 2003 but the ride is exactly the same when our suspension is applied to any model year, back to 1994. When we demo the truck we use the OE rear springs to represent how a client’s truck will feel. People just don’t believe how good suspension can be until they actually experience it.





I hope I’ve covered every question for now. If you have any other questions, please don’t hesitate to post them or write me directly at -- email address removed --. Sometimes it takes me a little while to respond, but when I get the time, I’ll respond in as much detail as possible.



Best Regards,



Kent Kroeker

T. Rex Engineering
 
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What about creating a progressive leaf spring pack for the rear that is much softer to start but ultimately stiffens up enough to accomodate a full GVWR load? Wouldn't this offer the best of both worlds and compliment your front springs?



Whoops! You posted part 2 while I was doing this one and mostly answered the above question.



I do have another though:



What about when we add aftermarket HD bumpers (200 lbs) and/or snow plows, do we need to get the shocks re-valved? Are they set up to handle the extra weight in front or will the progressive springs be to compliant?
 
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Progressive Leaf stack

It is possible to do this. Many spring makers call their leaf packs progressive and the design appears that way, but they really just make the ride stiffer. We've built progressive leaf stacks and some have worked well for a period of time, but we also run into problems with the whole concept. First of all, the leaf pack flexes from the outside ends first - near the shackle and mount. This is where the spring is the most supple. This is for your little bumps. As the bumps get larger, the stack starts flexing inwards until the shortest leaf is starting to work. A progressive stack is made by using many more leafs of much smaller width and thickness than OE. You would think that this would work fine in all situations, but it doesn't. The problem is that the leaf spring must do several things besides absorb bumps. It must position the axle, prevent axle wrap, and provide lateral stiffness. OE leaf springs are very, very strong. Ever heard of someone breaking one? It happens, but it's very rare. Because the so-called "progressive leaf stack" starts with such a thin leaf, they tend to break there. The spring makers know this - that's why they put what's called a "military wrap" around the mounting points of the springs they offer. So when the first leaf breaks, number two takes over the load. Axle wrap is also exaggerated upon acceleration and deceleration. Those supple "progressive" leafs allow the spring pack to twist as well as move up and down. This gets even worse when you start using bigger tires or tow a trailer. So now you have to use a track bar in the rear to keep the pinion angle consistent. When you hit a series of cross grain bumps, such as sharp edges at 45 degree angles, the weak leafs of a "progressive stack" flex sideways, allowing the U-bolts to hit the frame as the axle bottoms - even with a properly designed track bar (of which there are very few by the way). If you have any kind of load in the bed - forget it - metal to metal contact results each time you hit an uneven bump. We know all about this because we've done it! We can show you the wounds on our project truck! A progressive stack can work pretty well - especially for racing where it only has to perform at a set load and can be maintained and or replaced after each race, but when you design it to work over as broad a range of conditions as the OE spring you run into big problems. And those problems require more and more solutions until you have this expensive, crazy, heavy, unreliable nightmare attached your rear axle that ultimately is not as good as the simple parts your truck came with. It's just not practical. People spend thousands of dollars just getting their rear axles to articulate smoothly. They don't realize that most of the problems come from the shocks and not the springs.
 
That's a good question! You're really into this stuff. I'll tell you, I could talk about suspension all day long - and pretty much have done just that today - because that's what I do for a living and love every minute of it. I think most people would be bored stiff by now! hahah!



Anyway, excellent question - and here's the answer:



Ride height is a product of spring, not shock, so if you add a giant bumper and winch - or a 500 lb. snow plow, - these items are forward of the front axle and that moment arm (or lever) puts more weight on the front spring than if they were directly over the axle. We must retain a certain ride height for the shocks to work optimally - remember in the first post I talked about tuning the suspension for balance? The solution is a heavier spring - which we offer for these situations. We use the same compression valving with a hair more rebound to control the spring when it compresses. We've set up trucks with snow plows and heavy bumpers and they work great with our heavy spring. We don't need it for campers or towing because the weight is rear set. That's why we ask our clients a lot of questions before we ship them a system. We especially like to know the weight on each axle. This can be measured at a truck scale. We're perfectionists. One model isn't right for everyone. That's how we get maximum performance out of everything we sell.
 
Wow. Great answers! It certainly sounds like you guys have done the homework on this. I guess this means I have to get my HD bumpers installed before your suspension so I can get an accurate weight reading. As far as a snow plow, I'd only be interested in weighing the hardware that is permantently mounted as the plow would only be used as needed in the winter.



Another question:



I've read that King shocks are rebuilldable. I assume therefore that your version of them are as well? Also, what is that wears out when a shock does wear out and what would be included in a rebuild kit? Is that a do it yourself proposition?



Just thought of another question:



I've read that some King shocks offer the ability to adjust the compression and rebound valving via external means on the shock. Have you guys played with anything like that or offer it as an option?



Thanks for your time!
 
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