Ramifier Versus EZ

[JARichard]

I am having a tough time deciding between the Ramifier and the EZ. I know the EZ is adjustable and will give me about 72 HP. The Ramifier will give me about 125 hp but is not adjustable. The Ramifier is s'posed to kick in at a much lower RPM than the EZ. Someone stated that the fuel pressure is not raised as high with the Ramifier as with the EZ. (But I dont see how it can make more power without more pressure!!) No one will tell me what the Ramifier affects besides fuel pressure or how it does it. I have talked to the people at Edge twice and got 2 completely different answers. After reading several threads it is stated that you should not make more than 75 HP on a fueling box alone.

I will never tow more than 5000 lbs. with my truck. I do make about 2 250 mile roundtrips a week with 3000lbs. of cargo. My 47 RE is holding up good so far. But I did lose ALOT of power when I put on the 315's.

WHAT WOULD YOU GUYS BUY USING A TRUCK THE WAY I DO?

Thanks!!

 

[BRayls]

having only used the edge ,I will give it a vote.

 

[TCDiesel]

My vote is to wait for edge new box{TO QUOTE}it"s really close to release.

 

[fencebuilders]

In performance its not even close,RAMifier.

 

[RDietze]

Originally posted by TWest

My vote is to wait for edge new box{TO QUOTE}it"s really close to release.

"close" is a relative term

 

[DLeno]

First of all, comparing 70HP EZ to a 125 HP Ramifier is like apples and toyotas. The Edge number is an "apple" and is a measured "total peak RWHP gain over stock peak RWHP". literally it is the difference between the highest HP point on the stock curve (2900 rpm) and the highest point on the enhanced curve (whereever that is)



Secondly, the Ramifiers 125 HP gain is on a 235 HP SO engine not a 305 HP HO. the 305 HP engines don't respond as well. While TS informs me that their box "makes 100 HP" on a 305 HP engine, the basis of that data continues to elude me (TS has not release a dyno graph to the public). Accepting 100 HP for sake of discussion, it is still a toyota because it is measured differently than apples are.



Third, TS measures toyotas, not apples, because Toyotas are bigger than apples. To measure a Ramifier toyota, you take the largest difference between the stock and enhanced curves, at whatever RPM that is. some call that "best gain" and is very common in the industry. especially for boxes (like the Ramifier) that bring the power in sooner (at low rpms) the difference between stock and enhanced will be a very large number.



I have attempted to convert toyotas into apples for comparison purposes. After this is accomplished, you see that the ramifier and the EZ are within 10%. considering that one is a measurement made at high altitude and the other is given out over the phone without dyno measurements behind it, Id say Ramifier is no more powerful than the EZ.



see

fueling_box_summary for an explanation in more detail.



Now then, the ramifier's strength is in its low-rpm power -- big drivability difference, seat-o-pants meter and overall smile. Thats because it makes a huge difference in torque output at 2,000 rpm. at 2900 rpm, and without dynamometer data to the contrary, we must assume that it can make no more HP than the EZ does at peak output. otherwise its pressure is elevated higher than the EZ is.



We all know and respect that the EZ's hidden jumper settings went away because of the risk associated with higher pressures. We also know with certainty that the EZ and the Ramifier are on equal footing at full output (WOT 2900 rpm). Therefore we must conclude that either of the following is true:



1. Ramifier makes no more peak HP than EZ

2. Ramifier raises pressure higher than EZ



I am of the opinion that #1 is true and that both the EZ and the Ramifier make similar (within 10%) HP at to top end, and do so with fuel pressures in the 27,000 psi region. Where Ramifier outperforms the EZ is in the low end, where its fancy boost fooling brings in the power sooner and therefore it can provide more pulling torque in the RPM region of interest for most highway pulling.



In cab adjustability is a personal thing. me I wouldn't leave home without it, simply becaues my truck does everything from city commuting, towing, to offroad. when I go offroad crawling I don't want my 02 sensitive throttle to come back as a ghost to haunt me and toss my passengers all over creation.

 

[fencebuilders]

Sorry Doug,i have had both on my truck,as have a few other TDR members,its a world of difference.

 

[DLeno]

and if you read my post carefully, you will note that I agree. everything I have said in my post supports the fact that people feel a world of a difference when compared side by side in real trucks driven by real people in real driving conditions. what is it that you disagree with?

 

[JRG]

"close" is a relative term

Ya, the moon is close... .....compaired to Pluto!



JRG

 

[Hawkeye 04]

Fencebuilder, how do the RAMifier EGT's compare to the EZ? I assume that gauges are still a must even with regular driving... Just curious how they compare...

Another thing, wouldn't injectors help out at bottom end as well?

 

[fencebuilders]

Originally posted by DLeno

and if you read my post carefully, you will note that I agree. everything I have said in my post supports the fact that people feel a world of a difference when compared side by side in real trucks driven by real people in real driving conditions. what is it that you disagree with?

Doug, i have a hard time believing RAMifier makes no more peak horsepower than Edge,as you stated. RAMified S. O. trucks have dynoed at 310-325 h. p. I have to take my son to a school function,but look forward to continuing.

 

[fencebuilders]

Originally posted by Hawkeye 04

Fencebuilder, how do the RAMifier EGT's compare to the EZ? I assume that gauges are still a must even with regular driving... Just curious how they compare...

Another thing, wouldn't injectors help out at bottom end as well?

Fellow TDR members who have tried my RAMifier state it runs about the same,some conditions a bit hotter. I have been babying my truck lately,i got the SRT single gauge pod,and the Westach dual gauge should show up tomorrow. I will be happy to give detailed egt info. Gotta run,adios.

 

[JRG]

DLeno,



Thank you for "the fueling box summary" I found it VERY helpfull.



JRG



p. s. there was one referance to a 555/325. fyi

 

[fencebuilders]

Originally posted by fencebuilders

Fellow TDR members who have tried my RAMifier state it runs about the same,some conditions a bit hotter. I have been babying my truck lately,i got the SRT single gauge pod,and the Westach dual gauge should show up tomorrow. I will be happy to give detailed egt info. As for injectors,i am doing my homework as we speak,either D. D. 2's or EDH's (sp). Gotta run,adios.

;

 

[DLeno]

JRG: good catch. and it was even in the Ramifier section. I have updated the NW bombers site accordingly with the correction.



fencebuilders: pls post pics of your gauge when you install! this sounds like a great solution.

 

[JARichard]

OK I really did find it odd that the Ramifier was more power with less fuel pressure. So, the advantages EZ has are adjustability and cost. The Ramifier advantage is putting the power in the most used part of the RPM curve. Am I correct? What are the MPG INCREASES WITH THESE 2 boxes? Is the mpg INCREASE MORE WITH A SO like with the actual HP increase IS MORE WITH AN SO VERSUS HO?

Thanks for the info!!

 

[DLeno]

thats the way I perceive these two boxes, yes, but there are a couple of important clarifications:



1. at WOT full power 2900 rpm, higher than stock boost levels as permitted by boost fooling, the two boxes use exactly the same method of power enhancement: raise fuel pressure. As you compare apples to apples, you find that claimed peak HP gains between the two boxes are within about 10% of each other. measurement differences will easily swamp this, so we have to say that either the boxes make the same peak HP or one raises fuel pressure more than the other. there is no free lunch.



2. At towing RPMs and at lower than stock maximum boost, the Ramifier makes more HP gains over stock than the EZ does. I understand exactly how this is accomplished and can verify that there is no snake oil going on and that the Ramifier has found a free lunch. As you compare toyotas with toyotas you see that there will be a measureable and technically viable advantage to the Ramifier in this rpm range. This is sometimes refered to as "best gain" HP -- the largest difference between the stock HP curve and the enhanced HP curve.



The two important points being:



1. Ramifier feels more powerful than the EZ because it is more powerful than the EZ in the rpm range used in most driving. I've never driven one but looking at the numbers and knowing how it works, I think it would be quicker off the line and hold better cruise while towing at 2100 rpm.



2. Ramifier will not post any larger peak HP gains than the EZ will on dyno day. If it does, then the measurement is in error OR the Ramifier raises fuel pressure HIGHER than the EZ.



3 (bonus ). If there were a measureable difference in fuel economy between these two boxes (I don't know if there is or not) the nod would go to Ramifier, simply because of its manipulation of the fueling curve in the towing and most-driven rpm range. I suggest that the difference will be small and un-detected by casual experiementation. It would take a precision controlled experiment to reliably detect this.



I wouldn't be able to predict with any accuracy whether or not the mpg advantage lies in the ramified SO or the ramified HO. I suspect we're talking about small, if any ,peanuts

 

[JRG]

DLeno,



would it make sence for me to use something more like the volumizer due to having injectors. The volumizer doesn't use only pressure, I have more fuel already, don't I need a way of distrubiting that fuel, via duration? Also want to try to keep down EGT, @ 1375* WOT now with 4000#+ load.



JRG

 

[DLeno]

I'm not a diesel injection expert by any means, though I have pondered the injector question from standpoint of a fueling box.



keep in mind that there are lots of happy guys running injectors with a pressure box. like DD2s and an EZ. that was the first real 400+ HP solution to market.



I refer back to my 02 bombing quest, and noted that my plan (not executed before I sold it though) for my 02 was to use injectors and a box designed around injectors. The interest I developed at that time was around two things, both delivered by the DD equivalent of the Edge comp box: (1) a different fueling curve to control low boost fueling (smoke), and (2) a different timing curve.



Just my own opinion of course, but my interests would match yours --- your injectors already give you a larger squirt, and a pressure box would only make that squirt even larger. What I would be investigating if I were in your shoes is the same as I did for the 02: timing, and a different fueling curve.



As I understand your situation, you really don't want a duration increase because that would be more fuel. what I think would be good for injectors is (1) advance timing and (2) control the fueling curve at low boost levels with a custom pressure box.



The problem with Volumizer is I'm afraid that it would give you too much fuel (its more pressure than timing) so you'd end up with higher EGTs and more smoke.



You could use a TST on level 1 (timing only). beyond that I wish there were a programmable pressure/timing box capable of manipulating that low-boost fueling curve. Ramifier would be good but its a custom program and you can't shut it off and it doesnt' do timing. Volumizer does timing but doesn't do the low-boost fueling.



But given Edge's affiliation with DD, I personally would look for a DD flavor of the Attitude or Juice or whatever the new edge box will be. I would expect DD to re-badge that one with a fueling curve suitable for injectors -- just like they did on the Edge Comp (the DD timing and fueling curve were different from vanilla Edge)



So at the least I would wait for a few more months to see how the fueling box market shakes out. If I were in your shoes I don't think I would spring for a Volumizer or any other pressure box not designed around injectors or at least with them in mind. Unless of course you really are interested in dyno days, a big huffer, and all of that to control EGTs

 

[JRG]

Thanks, I'll wait to see what pans out. I just hope its not too much $$$$!



JRG