Raptor Toy Hauler Towing

[lindseyr]

Anyone towing a 3612DS Raptor with a 2500 ? I have read on some other camping forums there are guys doing this . A fully loaded Raptor would weigh 15. 8 K GVWR , my 2500 GVWR is 8800 , GCWR 20K . I know I will be over weight on the GCWR and about 1K over on the GVWR of my truck as the pin weight is around 2800 . I do have Timbrens , camper package and towing package . I know I should have at least a dually and most likely a MDT but, there are guys doing it with 2500s . The most I would be towing in any given year would be 3000 - 5000 mles mostly on the flat part of the east coast . So if anyone has any real world experience with this setup please advise . BTW I do not own this trailer as of now but I am towing a 33ft 12K GVWR bumper pull Toy Hauler . Just trying to get all the proverbial ducks in a row.

Thanks,

Rick

 

[y-knot]

In my opinion your simply asking for trouble, You need a 3500 dually for that type of trailer. Argue with me if you want, but there is a very good reason they make the dual rear wheel trucks, and towing a heavy fifth wheel is one strong reason why.

 

[oneshotkyle]

i just bought a 3814ss raptor, it is a little lighter than your 3612ds but comparable. i will be at the limits and sometimes a little over also. so i called my insurance company to check on this over weight issue and they told me square footage and value are all they care about. in my opinion yes the one ton is rated a bit higher but springs are the only difference. air bags will help compensate just like the one ton over load springs. as funny as all this weight issue is how come no one asks if these one tons drw and srw have E rated tires. my friends new one ton doesn't have them so how can they rate a one ton higher load capacity? i wouldn't be worried at all to see you draggin it down the road, i do. as far as RV's are concerned i'm gettin p***ed off at all of this towing weight crap when an 80 year old man can walk in and buy a motor home over 26k lbs with air brakes, no experience whatsoever and drive it off the lot. go figure.

 

[Babyfat]

a buddy of mine pulls his with a srw 3500 and says he has no problems, my sister has the triple slide unit and tryed pulling it with her f250 (salesman said no problem) i told her to get bigger truck, she has drw one ton now,



stopping is the big problem not going



have you bought one yet? my buddies is for sale

 

[EricBu12]

Rick,



I am the one you need to talk to as I have that same trailer and Sb 2500. w/ 6 sp. Manual. Camper package and tow group.



Now if you have a SB, you will need to get some sort of slider, if LB, then OK. I have the Roadmaster Helper springs from Mr. Bob, have also 245 70R 19. 5" Michelin "F" rate 12 ply tire rated at 4080# @95 psi. Rims are Ricksons Forged aluminum 8 lug 19. 5... I have A Jacobs E-Brake and rear disk conversion. I have about 400 HP with a Hybrid turbo (35/40).



The truck sits level when towing and the Jacobs help tremendously for slowing and stopping. No "squishy" feeling on truck push and I get 11 mpg towing it. . I have a Rhino Side by side which weighs 1300# and my total gross is 23,500#.



I agree the higher trucks have beeter WC ability but for a Srw, on 19. 5's, the frame and axle are the same Dana 80 just the ratio is higher (3:54) Duals in my Opinion is for VERY heavy 5ths (18K gvw) or big campers.



Going downhill on a 6% grade, I downshift 1 and Jake on and never touch brake... Use a 2wd low kit to manuver the beast without burnin the clutch.



About the trailer, call me so I can tell you what you need to look for and do. 801-599-7877 . . some insulation concerns... Look at my readers rigs under new raptor and under new tires and rims.



Eric

 

[oneshotkyle]

stopping is the big problem not going

so tell me what is the difference in brakes from a single rear wheel to a dual rear wheel? and just so you guys know i believe the raptor (3612ds) he is talking about has a 15k gross, some of those triple slides you are refering about will hit upwards of 18k. these trucks have no different running gear but the one ton has a over load spring setup. nothing a set of ride rite airbags won't handle to make the 2500 equivelent to a 3500

 

[RCarrillo]

Rick, I have the same Raptor and tow it w/ my 3500 97 Lb 4x4 but I think the major improvement to safety was the Rickson 19. 5 wheels & commercial tires. Also HEY Y-NOT, What kind of top speed u get w that 4:10 rear.

RikaRio

 

[wbrown02]

You can pull the Raptor with your 2500 and probably never have a problem... ... The main difference is the stability you get with a 3500 dully... . in a cross wind..... a long twisty down grade or a hard panic stop there is just no comparison!

 

[EricBu12]

I live in the high desert in Salt Lake city... been from here to Ca, to vegas, to south east Utah in moab. , gone to Nevada where the wind blows hard, I have had the high crosswind, went down a 10% grade on a 25 mph twisty 7 level hill not recommended for RV's, (in Az. south of Flagstaff)(did that in 3rd with the jake)... . have done all this and the comercial tires do the trick. None of the times listed above made me feel I was under-equiped. . When I had the single "E" tires, I had a Squishy feel on the truck from the deflection of the sidewalls. . I felt under-equiped then... I my opinion, the only difference on the 1 ton from the 2500 was different brakes and axle gear. I had the overload spring too and Dana 80. . just higher gear.



Sure, 4 "E" tires will do the same and maybe a little better, but at the cost of mileage and 2 more tires. If I had a heavier 5th, like 18K, then yeah, I'd get 4 of the the commercials on 19. 5's like the C & C 4500's coming out... .



I want to get a 40' Weekend Warrier 3 slide with 3 axle 16" tires. . GVW at 18K. . would have to get one of those 4500's for that as it is rated for 26K...



The 2500 can be beefed up and be safe, that all I am saying. . I have about 10,000 miles towing this way and all have been great. !

 

[RCarrillo]

Eric, I'm the one who called u last night, I work on a dive boat in the Gulf of Mexico and had a bad SAT conn, saw the Raptor Pics w/ the insulation! So u like that new 40' Warrior? Should I get rid of my Raptor while the gettin's good?

RikaRio

 

[lindseyr]

Thanks for the real world info Eric and RikaRio. Sounds like the 19. 5 Rickson wheels help out a good bit . Are they Michelin tires , what is the model # . I am not sure if I really want to go this heavy but its good to know it can and is being done . What is a 2wd low kit ? Also isn't the overload springs on the one ton the same that comes with the camper package ? I was under the impression that a 3/4 ton with the camper package was more or less the same as a one ton SRW . Eric,if I get closer to pulling the trigger on a Raptor I will definitely give you a call and BTW great pictures . What caused the blowout on the trailer ? Carlisle tires ? Sorry about all the questions but inquiring minds want to know.
Thanks again,
Rick

 

[EricBu12]

Rick,

The Michelin tires are perfect for the job. They are XDE-MS 245/ 70R 19. 5" 12 ply "F" Rated. If you get the raptor, you need that.

For the 40 Weekend Warrior, you would def. need a 3500 Dually at least. I like that one but I would want to get a 4500 truck... . That wont happen soon so I can dream. .

The overload might be the same but the springs, if I am wrong, might be a hair thicker on the 3500's. . Like I said, as long as you have the WC ability, just add the other things like Jake Brake, and stuff. .

The 2 low kit keeps the front axle from connecting when you put the shifter in 4wd low. There is a valve I operate to do this so when the lever is in 4wd low, it really is in 2wd low... This helps for maneuvering . . See the thread 2 low in this section.

The blowouts on the trailer was caused by cheap tires made in China. . All the tires had bad tread problems. . I replaced them all with tires made by Goodyear in Canada. . These so far have been good.

The things on the Raptor,..... I did the insulation on the floor for the bedroom, and over the battery compartment, and over the generator. Use 2" Foam board that has the reflective cover. . R-10 value, then I added a coating ov Reflecix R-2 value all across the underside of the foam. The Fridge has a Pantry beside it, the rear wall of the pantry is a thin board sep. the heat of the fridge vent, Put 2" foam board on this back wall as well as the cabinet above the fridge. . . If you saw the pic of the insulation going in the front closet, The front cap insulation had slipped down so there was no protection. We added 3, 8' strips in the upper angled strip, til it was filled in. ... The last thing we did was add the optional 13. 5K BTU A/C over the bedroom Vent. . This is a must for anything... And one last thing, The Ducted A/C goes all the way to the garage. If you are not going to cool it back there, block off the duct from the loft A/C opening... Take down the cover and block off the rectangle duct going to the garage. .

After I did all the above repairs and upgrades, I run the Gen, and put first the main A/C on, trip the breaker for the Microwave, then run the other A/C on low Cool. The gen is able to run both and the trailer cools pretty fast.

 

[TAbbott]

"so tell me what is the difference in brakes from a single rear wheel to a dual rear wheel?"



The SRW trucks have rear calipers with a dual piston setup with a pair of 45 mm brake pistons. The DRW setup is larger. They use 51mm pistons. Approx 28% more piston area on the DRW's. Same line pressure would naturally equate to greater pressures on the discs and increased braking effort, everything else being equal.



I think the workaround for this, ;if you are interested, is to use more aggressive linings on the pads with the SRW trucks. This may compromise rotor life, however. The pads themselves are rated with 2 letter codes defining their friction coefficients (aggressiveness) and fade resistance. They come in grades from EE thru GG with the GG's being applicable only to 18wheeler type air brakes. I got some FF's from NAPA that are supposed to be 2 steps more aggressive than the OEM equivalents. According to the guy at NAPA, stockers are EE's, next are EF's / FE's and then the FF's. Again, according to the NAPA guy, these are the highest rated pads available for the 3rd gen trucks.

 

[TAbbott]

"The SRW trucks have rear calipers with a dual piston setup with a pair of 45 mm brake pistons. The DRW setup is larger. They use 51mm pistons. Approx 28% more piston area on the DRW's. "



On edit, the above is correct on 3rd generation '06 2500 and 3500 models. I don't know about other generations or year models.

 

[ACerf]

In my opinion pulling a trailer that is over weight is asking for trouble. I read not long ago where one insurance company would not pay on a claim because the rig was grossly over weight. Is 1 ton over weight, I would say so! If you were a couple of hundard pounds that might be one thing. Also what about stopping, that is what I worry more about than pulling. If you hit someone in the rear because you couldn't stop and you are over weight, I think you need to look at these factors.

 

[EricBu12]

Acerf and Y-knot, I understand your concerns... probably better than anybody as I drive truck for a living(doubles and tripples upwards of 105K). .



If I didn't have the extra stuff for stopping, Weight carry, and stability. . I woulnt have this trailer. . I have comercial truck tires and HD rims (Ricksons rated 4500#). I put on A Jacobs E-brake, and I put on a thing called "brake Smart". . It is a pressurised canister that is on the brake lines and they increase the applied pressure to effect shorter stopping distance. I have proved that on my truck. Solo, it stops 70' shorter. I also put on the slotted front rotors with Carbon Kevlar pads, Rear Disk conversion,



The tires are commercial "F" rated 19. 5" . these have 8160# capacity per pair. The Dana 80 axle is rated for 10000#... My truck rear end is 6400# when the trailer is hooked. The helper springs I have are Roadmster prings from Mr. Bob. they are better than overloads as they are progressive from the start. they have a little pre-load with the truck empty and absorb the rest when the trailer sits on it.



All these things help and they do good... Now, the other aspect is I don't drive over the ability of the truck. I do 65-70 tops. I see all the other lifted 4X4's, going fast and tailgating, and just stupid... these are the ones we hear about in the news. . I have had to hit the brakes hard a couple of times with the jake going... but because I take it cautiously, I have enough time to control it.



OK, enough of all this. . Coming up on RV weather here, going to Moab in May. . Got the "toys" all tund up and ready to go.



Happy Rv'ing!

 

[ACerf]

I am glad to see that you have done all of these goodys to the truck and this should help alot. However, as far as the insurance company is concerned it is still whatever the truck is rated for by the manufacture.

Take it from someone who has towed a trailer many thousands of miles, 70 mph is to fast! I normaly drive between 55 and 62. I have had a blow out on the trailer and if I were going 70 I am sure it would have been all over the road. People who drive RV's 65+ are asking for trouble in double digits!

But people will be people, and there are alot of ramy drivers out there trying to get some where fast to have fun, they need to take in the scenery as they go there!

 

[EricBu12]

I have had 2 blowouts on this trailer and both times I never felt it. . never heard or had a wiggle. . the 3 axle trailers are very stable so I bought one of those wireless transmitters for tire pressure. Now I can moniter all 6 tires on the fly. sweet system!



I drive 130,000 miles a year, I pass some RV's and some pass me. My big rig is governed at 62 so I do about that to 65 in the Ram. Its comfortable and most people and trucks still pass me which means I'm not the fastest on the road. The raptor has brakes on every wheel so it helps stop good. I have the Prodigy controller and it works well.



If I was able, I'd be the first to buy a QC 4500 and outfit it right. . I love the fact DC is making one but I am disappointed att them for not making a Mega cab 4500...



but for now, I just make do with what I have.



Rick, if you get the Raptor. do all the things I mentioned and you will be happy with it. . Also a neat thing I did was replace all the marker lights with LED lights from www.ledtrailerlights.com they have a 14 LED light that is neat. and I replaced the main tail lights with Series 60 oval LED lights. See my readers rigs to see what they look like.