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Re torque head bolts or not.

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I'm left wondering if i should be torqueing down my factory torqued head bolts to 120ft/lb's or what. Some posts are saying that the factory head gasket would hold up better.

Did a search on torqueing head bolts, but didn't find a deffinet yes or no?



After 9 years of heat cycles would it be a good idea or leave as is.



:confused:
 
I would not do it, if it held so far it will continue. You do have the old style of gasket that is weaker. IMO if the head bolts get touched a new gasket is going in. There is no torque value for the head for final tightening either, it is 90* PAST the top torque value which I believe is 105Ft/lbs. I could be wrong on the value.
 
I really do not think there is a reasonable formula to tell when it is going to go. My theory is if it goes I fix it, with the best parts I can get. The new 12V gasket is the marine spec gasket, it is stronger than the one you have if you are still on the original gasket. I am not running nearly the boost you are (30-34PSI) and I have lost one headgasket already. If I were you I would leave well enough alone and pump it up some more if that is your intention. If it blows fix it, if not rock on!
 
I am replacing mine right now, my max boost was 40 psi. and I had my timing at 17. Its a 96 215's and #11 plate all the way forward. But I bent my pushrods because it was on #6 TDC. Doh!!!!



Are the new gaskets . 010 over the stock or are the same thickness just "marine"? My head was surfaced with . 008 taken off so now I am thinking of going the . 015 gasket. Cummins Salt Lake didn't show a . 010 only a . 015 and . 030.



Shane
 
After a bolt has been in place for a time the amount of torque to break the fastener loose and start it moving again is probably a higher amount than the torque you want.

I do not know if this makes any sense to you?:confused:
 
A couple of things I've found out lately... .



the 90* past is relatively inaccurate because it must be done in one smooth sweep. Many high hp folks are torquing to 130-135ftlb and retorquing after a 10 and 100 hrs.



the . 010 gaskets run much better than a . 030 because... the compresion ration does not drop significantly and the spray pattern in the cyinder is properly located. . 015 -. 020 seems to run well also.



Granted these are opninions of different builders and tuners but everyone I've spoken to generally agrees.



Later,

Mark
 
Thanks guy's. Was just thinking about preventive maintanance with all the failing head gaskets around. Was hopeing someone tried to break loose the bolts by tighting them slightly, then torqueing them to a higher ft/lb and having the gasket last.



mark
 
You CANNOT get any true torque reading by wrenching bolts that are "glued" in with rust, dirt, corrosion and just age. You would do more harm than good due to achieving uneven torque. To properly torque anything you must disassemble, thoroughly clean and lubricate the threads and bearing areas of the bolts or nuts.



Mike
 
Understand. Thanks.

What do you guy's think about giving the bolts another 90 deg turn, at say 30 deg at a time in proper sequence, as there doesn't seem to be a dead set torque value other than the factory 89lbs+ 90 deg.

I would drop in on Piers but i know he's headed to surprise a few people.



mark
 
Mark, On turning all the bolts an equal amount, if all head bolts were the same length, same threaded area, identical in all respects you would be o. k. However due to the variables noted above you would NOT have any consistancy whatsoever due to bolt stretching... yes they do stretch.



Having been directly, hands on, involved in the overhaul and repair of steam and gas turbines bolt stretching is the only way to equalize tightness of variable bolt lengths. This is done by measuring the depth of blind holes in the bolts with a micrometer, a protractor is used to come close.



I would torque to specs and do so only after complete disassembly and cleaning of the concerned bolts and their threaded bores.



Mike
 
I recommend leaving them alone. When installing a new head gasket, I torque the bolts in proper sequence (see service manual) 40, 70, 100, 120 120 (re-check). I don't retorque later; I did this once and found them all OK.



Head gasket failures reported on this forum are in general either (1) water leakage which was fixed by Cummins upgrading all applications to the marine part--not a torque or compression seal problem (2) tremendous cylinder pressure from very high boost and "additives" like nitrous or propane. I have never lost a head gasket.
 
Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly

Head gasket failures reported on this forum are in general either (1) water leakage which was fixed by Cummins upgrading all applications to the marine part--not a torque or compression seal problem (2)



This ^^^^^^^^^ would be my case for sure. No cyl pressure is getting aywhere but out the tailpipe. It is the coolant that is wandering and not where it is supposed to be.
 
Mark I wouldn't worry about it too much, if it happens it happens. I know thats not comforting but the job is really not that hard. If your carefull it will be a cinch, and the heads not too hard to get into place if you get up in the engine compartment on the passenger (Turbo removed) and set it on. Plus you get a little more intimate with your truck!!!



Shane
 
Thanks Shane.



Down time is my biggest worry. Can tear apart and rebuild most anything, as one of my trades is millwright.

I use my truck every day as a work truck, grocery getter and bogger puller. :D



mark
 
Thank You Gentlemen...

I just finished wading my way thru a disheartening "1,000 page" automatic transmission thread... (U know the type)



Finding this gem was a much needed breath of fresh air. I still drop in here occasionally in spite of no longer owning a Cummins. Finding a good informative thread like this one is why I still do. This made for good reading. Thanks again. You guys made my day. :)
 
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