Archived Rear End 'Chop Suey'

[Blue Thunder]

My rear end has exploded. It went out when I left work. I had to put it in 4WD to limp home, about 60 miles. About 20 mi. from home, a loud clunk, spedo to 0, no power to rear. When I got up this morning, I looked to see the damage. To my suprise the top of the 'Mag-hytec' diff cover was peeled off. I am going out to remove cover and will report back.



I need help finding parts, and getting them quickly.

 

[Extreme1]

OUCH!!

It may be cheaper (and faster) to get a used assembly than to repair yours. Since you drove it that far, the hub bearings will need replacement too. Assume the gears (and probably the carrier) are toast. Catastrophic failures like these can wreck the housing too.



Look in the classifieds, check online at salvage yards, check in your yellow pages. Compare prices (don't forget shipping if necessary).



Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[Blue Thunder]

Well I took off the, now worthless, diff cover and here is what I found: It looks like a piece of the limited slip gear got 'sucked up' by the ring gear and lodged itself between the ring and the housing. That is no doubt what blew the top off the cover. Secondly, because the ring gear is now immobilized, something else must have snapped, since the wheels and the driveshaft both turn.



It is now at the dealer for diagnosis. Will return with update.

 

[MarkF]

Dealer!?!?!?!?!!!! I hope this is a warrantee repair! Otherwise be prepared to take a second mortgage on your house!!! Best to look in boneyards for a front end wreck or burner, if your housing is still ok then you can buy all the new parts yourself (carrier included) and pay a race car shop or the like to set up the R&P for half the price the dealer will charge to have a tech who watched a video once on how to set up a rear butcher yours. Even if the dealer has a good axle guy its gonna be $$$$$$$$$!!

Keep us posted

 

[truckstom]

I agree, replace the whole thing, faster, easier, cheaper...

 

[Deezul1]

Had that happen when towing a TT with a Ford and a bone yard rear end complete was $1000 installed by a shop and the Ford dealer would have rebuilt it for $1200 but it would have taken to long to get the parts. This was in 96 and sure to be higher now. It looked like a hand grenade went off in the rear end.

 

[Blue Thunder]

Well here goes.

Price from dealer to rebuild: $3900.

Price for dealer to replace with whole new rear end that I supply:$720.



Needless to say, I looked around for a unit to put in. I found one out of a '01 with drum brakes like I have.



Pro's: It's a Dana80, so that is a much better unit, and will bolt right in. Newer. Less miles, only about 28K. They delivered it right to the dealer, and will pick up the core from my house.



Con's: It's a Dana80, so the dealer kinda lifted an eyebrow when he found out. But I smoothed that out. They are going to put it in. The tech 'seamed' to know what he was doing, but you never know, I just didn't have the time to do it myself.



Big Con: I was so close to getting an '01 with disks. However, I just couldn't wait a week or two, to get my truck back. If I only had the time, I would of had access to a rolled truck thru HVAC. It would have provided all the necessary hardware. (mstr. cyl. , proportioning valve, ABS, etc. )



I found it interesting that no one else has tried to do this brake swap. Not even Ted J. If there is someone out there that has, please stand up.



Thanks to HVAC for the help. As always ready to help.



This may not be the last post since I just gave them the unit today.

 

[Briman]

I've had suspicions that my dif is bad as well. Another person posted that his truck had sudden lurching when driving slowly(can't remember exact description or thread). I think he had a y2k. My truck did that a long time ago, around 24K on the ODO (110K now). Since then, I have replaced two rear u joints and one center one. Last fall I did my yearly dif oil change and had alot of metallic flakes in the used oil. I think my dif is the cause of the shot u joints and maybe even a ride issue. I have a Y2k as well, I would like to confirm if there was a problem with the Spicer 80's from that time frame. Anyone else had troubles like this... .

 

[Briman]

Bluethunder, didn't your PU have a 80 in it to start with? I didn't understand the pro of switching to an 80. Is there a difference between a dana and spicer 80? Thanks for any info.

 

[Adam]

80's are bigger

Briman,



The Dana 80 only comes in the manual transmission 2500's, and all the 3500's. The auto 2500's all come with Dana 70's. The 80 has a larger ring gear and pinion, as well as stronger tubes, and axle-shafts. I don't remember the difference in spline-count, but I believe the 80 shares a significant advantage over the 70 there as well. Dana and Spicer are one in the same, having been bought by the same holding company some 30 years back. Sometimes you'll even see them listed as "Dana/Spicer" on U-joint boxes and such. Hope this helps.



-Adam

 

[Briman]

Thanks for the input Adam. I was not aware that autos had a smaller dif. I did know that 60 and 70 covers have the same shape\size.

 

[Extreme1]

OUCH AGAIN!!

$720 to change an rear end assembly?



Let's see, 8 nuts for the leaf springs, 4 bolts for the drive shaft, take the drums off and switch the brake cables over, 1 brake line. Then bleed the rear.



A few things to watch out for:



1) Some salvage yards sell "complete" rear ends without axles or drums.



2) The driveshaft will probably have to be shortened because the housing is bigger and the pinion gear flange might be closer to the front of the truck.



3) The leaf spring pads and the pins in the springs might be different sizes between the 70 and 80. You might want to confirm some of this before you have the dealer go to work on it. Once they run into a problem, flat rate goes out the window and you're on time and materials. At more than $1/minute in most cases.



I'm not trying to rain on your parade (I'd do the 80 too), I just don't want you to have an unplesant experience with this. It could get out of had ($ wise) real fast if it doesn't drop in.



Would it be worthwhile to rent a beater for a week to get the disk brakes?

 

[Bigramguy]

I'll Second that ouch !

$720. 00 for the Re&Re is outrageous. Either knock them down some or seek a local shop who can do it much cheaper. Either way,get them to show you the "actual" labour time in the Chilton's or Mitchell Labour Guide,and you'll find they are overcharging you. Like Extreme said,there isn't much to it at all.

 

[cwcox]

WHOA ON THAT $720. 00!!!!! Ditto the response to have them show you the Chilton or mitchell labor time for that operation. I have been a Chrysler tech/Service manger for years, and that number is WAY out of line. If that total includes oil and tax, and if you take those prices out (about $40 tax and $50 or so for expensive oil) you are left with about TWELVE HOURS of labor time! Are they nuts! That labor operation should be about 2. 5 to 3. 5 hours, unless other items are being done. And going up to the 80 wouldn't make a bit of difference unless other parts are needed such as a different yoke or driveshaft modifications. Hope you haven't paid the bill yet, good luck! P. S. - Don't be afraid to speak to the owner and ask for justification on the price, and there is no reason they can't show you the labor time, even if they use the factory warranty labor time and add 15% or so to that for being a used/older vehicle. This is a common practice and usually matches Chilto/Mitchell. Good Luck.

 

[Blue Thunder]

Thanks for the info techs.



I should have itemized the price better:

The first $400 was far the initial break-down and inspect, and price out an estimate to repair. So I would have had to pay that regardless of if thay did the repair work.



The addtl. $320 was for the R&R of another D70 (A little extra, I was told, because of the Lift and the air-bags). A reasonable # to me.



Sorry, I didn't mean to startle you. Thanks for looking out for a member, though.



Update: Today they called and told me that it 'couldn't be done'. When I questioned the Service Rep. , She wasn't clear on why it wouldn't work, so I told her I would come down for an explaination from the tech. She agreed that he would be better able to explain it to me.



When I got there, the tech showed me that, first of all, the brake lines on the axle housing were dirrerent, and needed to be switched, which they had already done.



Next, the axle tubes are larger on the D80, so all the mounting hardware (top and bottom brackets, u-bolts) didn't work.

As a result, the tech said that the service manager stopped all work on the vehicle, and told him to tell me to get another D70. 'We'll only trade out the exact same item. '



I talked to the tech for a while, in hopes of getting on his good side, and subsequently asked him, "Do you think you can sweet-talk your boss into just getting new brackets. We've come so far to just put the old diff back in, and let me do the work myself. " He said it wouldn't do any good, 'but you can talk to him if you want to. ' So I did.



He turned out to be way-cool. He said that the only reason he stopped work was to make sure I knew that it wasn't exactly the same unit that was originally in the truck, and may need some addtl. parts to make it work. As long as I signed off on the fact that I knew that, and weren't going to sue them for it or something, he said he would do what it takes to make the D80 work. Turns out, he is in to building jeeps, 4-wheeling, Rubicon, etc. He knows how to modify parts to fit.



So, if you are goint to do a swap like this make sure you get the right mounting hardware.



B. T. W. Techs: What do you know about swapping to a rear axle with disks? Can you ask around? I posted this topic in another forum. The 24V, no engine/drivetrain I believe. Any info would be helpfull. Thanks.

 

[Sled Puller]

This is probably a stupid question at this point, but did anyone check to see if it was the same gear ratio?

 

[Bigramguy]

$400. 00 dollars to break down and inspect ?? What did they do ?? That's gotta be 6 hrs labour,downright outrageous.



Kinda makes you wonder when the estimate charge is more than the labour to do the entire re&re.



If the axle tubes are a different diameter,then they should be able to either order new brackets and U-bolts for a 2500 MT,or 3500,and bolt it in. Same goes for the brake lines. A D80 was available in that truck,so they should be able to make it fit.



I think it may be time to find someone else to do this repair. Someone who can make it work at a REASONABLE price.