Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Rear main oil seal: confused with extra parts: weird white plastic ring incld. in kit

[Coalsmoke]

Guys, I need some advice, I'm in the middle of my trans job, and am doing my rear main (engine seal) since I got everything apart. I got a new original Cummins rear main seal kit, however, I just went to put the seal in and noticed that there was an extra piece to the kit that I'm not sure what to do with. I have the seal, with the plastic sleeve in it just like the front main seal kit had, and I have a metal ring, which I figure is the seal driver, but I also have this large white plastic ring, about 3/8" thick and 3/8" deep, same diameter as the oil seal. It has a bevel on the inside radius and it has stamped in it "For rear geartrain engines. " Am I supposed to use this somehow Thanks guys, I'm stuck on this and want to get my truck put back together.

 

[Signal73]

unless you saw one when you pulled your old one out, I would think its for another application. Its not the install sleeve from the way you describe it.

 

[Coalsmoke]

The big Dodge repair book talks about the sleeve and also an insertion tool, but doesn't show a very good picture of it. I just though it might have had something to do with setting the correct seal depth, because when I match up the metal seal driver that was included with the old oil seal that was still on the crank, it seemed like the new driver was going to put the new seal too deep into teh engine. I'll just put the new seal where it looks about right where the old one was and call it done. Thanks for the reply, have a good weekend

 

[Signal73]

Likewise Coalsmoke.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Well, it went in much smoother than the front one, but this one is seated 3/16" further in than the original one that came out. I trusted the metal tool instead of my "better" judgement and seated it deeper, hopefully all is well. I suspect that the intention might be for them to be seated deeper than the stock ones so that they ride on a fresh crank surface.

 

[dpuckett]

As an added benefit, you cane be SURE it is seated an even depth all around, increasing the chances of a good seal. Your eyeball can be off more than a hair.



DP

 

[Coalsmoke]

As an added benefit, you cane be SURE it is seated an even depth all around, increasing the chances of a good seal. Your eyeball can be off more than a hair.



DP

For sure, that's another main point. Considering everything that has to be removed in order to get to the rear main, I really don't want to have to tear back into it next week because I messed something up

 

[Dieseldemon]

That white bolck is for installing the seal into rear gear train engines.

 

[Coalsmoke]

That white bolck is for installing the seal into rear gear train engines.

Could you please give an example of a rear gear train engine? Would that be like having the front gear train (pump, cam, etc) on the rear of the engine?

 

[hsmith]

Are you doing the rear cam plug also? Think there is an o-ring there. The trans adapter has to be removed for access.

Will be doing the same to mine soon. Have the SB 13" kit in the shop now.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Nope, only did the rear main. It had a minimal amount of seepage but I decided to do it as preventative maintenance.

 

[Dave M]

Are you doing the rear cam plug also? Think there is an o-ring there. The trans adapter has to be removed for access.

Will be doing the same to mine soon. Have the SB 13" kit in the shop now.

A few months ago, I just installed SBC mu 13-1. 25 Con O on my 97. I found a bad leak (oil or transmission?) in the clutch housing so I replaced the rear crank seal. I installed it with the metal ring depth gage also.



I also replaced the transmission input shaft seal to be sure it wasn't the leak source. Peter at SBC recommended Bulmenfals (Spell?) Transmission who suggested just replacing the whole input retainer (that had seal installed already) for about $40. I did not want to chance any leaks into my expensive new clutch/flywheel and ruining a new clutch. The input shaft retainer just unbolted with 4 bolts. Hard part was removing it since the sealent was like glue. I used perma-gasket to re-seal it per Blumenfals.

 

[GAmes]

Smitty,



There are two choices from Cummins. A stock size seal that comes with an installation tool and a seal with a sleeve that fits over the groove worn into the crank (like mine was). It doesn't come with an install tool. The guy who put my last transmission in did the seal, so I don't know what the trick is.



Gary

 

[hsmith]

Thanks Gary, I will be looking at it pretty soon. I am now running a 10 with DDP II's, and yesterday pulling the tt down 16 south of Kerrville, had a little slippage in 4th over. Will also at the same time go through the transmission, upgraded main shaft, bearings, etc.





Smitty

 

[WDimig]

hey guys, on the rear gear train ISB engines, there is actually a installation tool that is used to instal the rear main seal, that white plastic ring with a notch cut in it, goes inside this tool, and is what pushes on the seal to set the depth, this ring is never used on our B & ISB front gear train engines. just use that metal depth ring to set the depth of the seal. i would like to point out one thing, there are wear sleeve service kits availiable, a wear sleeve kit inclues a small metal sleeve that gets pressed onto the crankshaft to make a "fresh" surface to seal, sometimes the seals can wear a groove into the crankshaft, and when this happens, the seal will not seal agains the crankshaft, even when new, by putting this sleeve on the end of the crank where the seal is going to be, it creates a new surface to seal against. soo if you doing either a rear main or front crank seal, always check the crank, if you feel a groove in the crank, i would highly reccomend that your use a wear sleeve kit, it most likely will save you from doing the job twice. now the seal that comes in the kit is slightly larger than the stock size seal, that is to compensate for the metal ring that is now on the crankshaft. dont ever try and use a stock size seal with a wear sleeve, it will ruin the seal. there is a special tool, (cummins part # 3824078 for the rear main seal, and the front crank wear sleeve tool part # is 3824500) used to instal these wear sleeve's. the rear wearsleeve kit part number is 3906081, and the front crank wearsleeve kit is part # 3806080. hope this info helps guys!



wes

 

[Coalsmoke]

hey guys, on the rear gear train ISB engines, there is actually a installation tool that is used to instal the rear main seal, that white plastic ring with a notch cut in it, goes inside this tool, and is what pushes on the seal to set the depth, this ring is never used on our B & ISB front gear train engines. just use that metal depth ring to set the depth of the seal. i would like to point out one thing, there are wear sleeve service kits availiable, a wear sleeve kit inclues a small metal sleeve that gets pressed onto the crankshaft to make a "fresh" surface to seal, sometimes the seals can wear a groove into the crankshaft, and when this happens, the seal will not seal agains the crankshaft, even when new, by putting this sleeve on the end of the crank where the seal is going to be, it creates a new surface to seal against. soo if you doing either a rear main or front crank seal, always check the crank, if you feel a groove in the crank, i would highly reccomend that your use a wear sleeve kit, it most likely will save you from doing the job twice. now the seal that comes in the kit is slightly larger than the stock size seal, that is to compensate for the metal ring that is now on the crankshaft. dont ever try and use a stock size seal with a wear sleeve, it will ruin the seal. there is a special tool, (cummins part # 3824078 for the rear main seal, and the front crank wear sleeve tool part # is 3824500) used to instal these wear sleeve's. the rear wearsleeve kit part number is 3906081, and the front crank wearsleeve kit is part # 3806080. hope this info helps guys!



wes

Thanks for the further clarification on the white ring, its appreciated. I never heard of larger seals for the speed sleeves, that's news to me. I have used sleeves and always been successful with OEM style / sized seals, but I've never had to sleeve a main / crank seal and am not a professional mechanic. Then ones I've used have been thinner than a razor blade, are you speaking of some sort of thicker sleeve or is a crank seal more picky than say trans or rear-end seals?

 

[WDimig]

the sleeve's in the kit, are not very thick, i would say around . 5 of a millimeter thick, but that does make a difference in the overall crank diameter, that why a slightly larger seal is included in the kit.



wes