Rebuilding a 1st gen auto at the home shop?

[Coalsmoke]

Hey guys, I'm selling the 2001. 5 and am looking into buying a 1st gen. I would like to buy a 5spd 4x4 but with the way the prices seem to be and 5 speed 4x4 combo being harder to find, I seem to be finding myself choosing between 5 speed but 2wd or auto with 4x4. I've had some bad luck with different autos in the past and would prefer the 5speed, but I also know the getrag 5speeds are not the best transmissions either. So, maybe an auto would be fine Has anyone rebuilt their own auto (with OD is what I'd be shooting for). Can it be done proper in a well equipped home shop? I'd take a standard rebuild on as I can handle gears and bearings, but have never been inside an auto. How are the autos behaving in these trucks? Will I end up just wishing I had waited for a 5 speed truck.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I used to build Powerglides off old Chrysler 727 Torqueflites, and put them behind 500+ ci RB chrysler engines. The selection of lower gears made them ideal for heavy cars, such as the old SuperGas or DoorSlammer class of cars. The autos in the Dodge diesels (A518, I think) were pretty good, with an overdrive added to the old 727, basically. I cannot reccomend disassembly by anyone, even in a well equipped shop, as the overdrive unit has high tension springs, which have to be taken apart carefully to avoid injury. I used to have a special tool used in a shop press that I had machined for dissassembling them, but I sold it with my first off-road shop, as I didn't do very many of the autos. Regardless, I'd certainly investigate the auto route, if that's what you want. Several companies make conversion kits to update the Getrag 5speed manual to a NV4500, such as Blumenthal Heavy Duty (OKC, Ok- Welcome to Blumenthal Manufacturing ) As far as autos go, there are a plethora of companies building excellent auto transmission parts, and even complete trannies reasonable. ATS and SunCoast are the first two I'd reccomend..... I've seen some SunCoast trannies take some abuse even a 6 speed wouldn't!! ( Sun Coast Converters Diesel Transmissions, Fort Walton Beach FL ) I have very limited experience with ATS transmission, but I have done a good deal of business with them, and know they build an excellent product, and in doing business with them, they are very knowledgable and ready to help or find someone who can. I'd suggest giving them a call and visiting with their tech support crew to answer an questions you may have.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Thanks HH for the input. I'm not afraid of making my own tools when it is realistic to do so, I have a lathe, welders, etc. But, I am worried about cost of parts and the knowledge necessary for a successful rebuild. Maybe I'd be better with a 2wd truck with a standard and just keep a set of chains with me in the winter. Its just that I've lived with a 4x4 for so long that I'm not sure I want to go without it. That said 99% of the time, even in winter, I never use the 4x4. Of course the other option is something like a gas f250 4x4 5speed since they are cheap and about as rare as junkfood in a walmart.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Thanks HH for the input. I'm not afraid of making my own tools when it is realistic to do so, I have a lathe, welders, etc. But, I am worried about cost of parts and the knowledge necessary for a successful rebuild. Maybe I'd be better with a 2wd truck with a standard and just keep a set of chains with me in the winter. Its just that I've lived with a 4x4 for so long that I'm not sure I want to go without it. That said 99% of the time, even in winter, I never use the 4x4. Of course the other option is something like a gas f250 4x4 5speed since they are cheap and about as rare as junkfood in a walmart.

Now that's humor... ... HA! Well, if you're not afraid to dissasemble one, you'll need a list of tools for dissasembly and reassembly, such as the Clutch Cam puller and press plate, SP-3701 and SP-3583-A. I don't know if those numbers are still good, which is why I suggest talking to a pro shop before you start this endeavor yourself..... also, page 280 of section 21 in the FSM reads: "Warning: The next step in geartrain assemble involves compressing the direct clutch hub and spring. It is extremely important that proper equipment be used to compress the spring, as spring force is approximately 800 pounds. Use spring compressor tool C-6227-1 and a hydraulic-type shop press with a minimum ram travel of 5-6 inches. The press must also have a bed that can be adjusted up or down as required. Relaese clutch spring tension slowly and completely to avoid personal injury. "



Now, having given my proper warnings, (so if you get hurt it AIN'T MY FAULT!!! ) remember, God hates a coward, so tear into it!! The '91-'93 FSM shows a good dissasembly and rebuild process, just so you know. I'd suggest investing in one if you intend to do that kind of work. They are irreplaceable. After thinking on this, I think I may need to invest in some of these tools again, so if you find a good source, let me know.....



God bless...

 

[Coalsmoke]

Thanks again for the help HHhuntitall. After reading your last post I did some more reading and feel that the intermediate shaft spacer tool is one of the only hang-ups as it is a precise measuring point. I could turn one on my lathe if I can find out what its exact dimensions are. That big spring in the OD is impressive. To be honest, the rebuild looks like fun, but I agree a factory service manual would be a good idea. Knowing this now getting an auto truck won't be the end of the world. Thanks and God bless.

PS: About the tools, the real question is finding a place that doesn't charge an arm and a leg for some of these tools. I think I found that spacer tool, its simply a piece of steel machined to a certain length, and they want $97 for it. Maybe I should get into the tool manufacturing business

 

[GHarman]

Thanks again for the help HHhuntitall. After reading your last post I did some more reading and feel that the intermediate shaft spacer tool is one of the only hang-ups as it is a precise measuring point. I could turn one on my lathe if I can find out what its exact dimensions are. That big spring in the OD is impressive. To be honest, the rebuild looks like fun, but I agree a factory service manual would be a good idea. Knowing this now getting an auto truck won't be the end of the world. Thanks and God bless.



PS: About the tools, the real question is finding a place that doesn't charge an arm and a leg for some of these tools. I think I found that spacer tool, its simply a piece of steel machined to a certain length, and they want $97 for it. Maybe I should get into the tool manufacturing business

Coal Smoke! Wouldnt the "Chrysler Engineers" that are on TDR, to answer questions, have this info or access to it? It would seem to me, any proprietary dimensions for the '93 service tools should be public domain by now? God Bless You, My Friend. GregH

 

[Greenleaf]

You need to contact Philip on the other first gen forum at Cumminsforum.com in the first gen section. He is one of the moderators on the site and can tell you that you can substitute a mopar "special tool" and what to look for. There are upgrades you can employ as well to the base transmission.



He wanted to rebuild mine for the fun of it! ..... (?)



I don't know too much about the auto trans tools, but I do know that any service manual lists loads of special tools required for ANY task.



The front end rebuild for the Ram w/2WD requires several Mopar tools. But if you know what your doing, you don't need any of that.

 

[HHhuntitall]

You need to contact Philip on the other first gen forum at Cumminsforum.com in the first gen section. He is one of the moderators on the site and can tell you that you can substitute a mopar "special tool" and what to look for. There are upgrades you can employ as well to the base transmission.



He wanted to rebuild mine for the fun of it! ..... (?)



I don't know too much about the auto trans tools, but I do know that any service manual lists loads of special tools required for ANY task.



The front end rebuild for the Ram w/2WD requires several Mopar tools. But if you know what your doing, you don't need any of that.

You wouldn't have his contact info, would you? I'd love to pick his brain on the upgrades. I really want to put a lockup converter in the next one I do. This one's ok, but the last one I did, I had a P-pump on that motor, and the transmission wasn't up to spec. I had to tune it down to keep it together. :{ I've talked to Suncoast several times, but they're not as helpful as they used to be.....

 

[Greenleaf]

Yes, go to Cumminsforum.com and look up his name in the first gen section. He is one of the mods there. Not hard to find. I won't give out his phone number w/o permission.



The lock up transmission you'd want is the second gen rig. These 518's are not equipped. And that is one of the problems w/the second gen rig transmission. You boost the power and wreck the transmission when the clutch slips. You'd have to upgrade the transmission too.



All I have to do with the 727 and 518 is upgrade the flex plate and swap in a tighter converter. The valve kits and piston upgrade(s) among others are items to address with a full rebuild.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Thanks guys. I won't get too worried about tracking down the specifics until I need that tool. Thanks for the contact with Philip, I'm sure he wouldn't mind mic'ing it so I can turn one here in the shop. I know when I worked at Dodge we had a 12 x 20 room filled with all of these special tools and most of them never saw the light of day.