Refrigerator shopping

[HoleshotHolset]

I've been looking for quite a while for a good fridge.



All of the new stuff doesn't excite me very much... except for the really high-end stuff, of course. All of the Whirlpool/GE/Amana/LG/Samsung stuff just feels like it will break in a year or two...



Does anyone have anything bad to say about Sub Zero brand fridges? I have a line on a couple of used ones... model '550' or '561'. The used market for these things is pretty much non-existant...



Obviously - I can't afford a brandy-new Sub Zero, but they do have a pretty good reputation for being built very well.



Word on the street is that Sub Zero doesn't let their blemished models go out the door very easily... which is really bad since their headquarters is right down the street from me...



I'm not opposed to a 'normal' fridge - more than anything, I'm hoping to hear from some refrigeration or appliance repair folks as to why I should go with a certain brand/model.



Thanks,



Matt

 

[Bob Wagner]

bigger is always better, buy as big as you can Lobsta :-laf

 

[LandShark]

I was renewing a household appliance policy for a relative a couple of years ago and noticed that the policy specifically mentioned 'Sub-Zero' as NOT being covered.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

There won't be any lobstah stored in my fridge. I've managed to stay away from any form of seafood out here... like any self-respecting New Englandah would do.



Sub Zero's are unique. The majority of any Sub Zero freezer/fridge combo built after 1988 or so has individual compressors, condensors, evaporators for the freezer and the fridge. This not only contributes to their high purchase price... but also has the potential to cost more to repair. I've run across an outfit that knows these things inside and out. They claim that with a few tweaks - they're really trouble free.



Sub Zero freezers often hold at -10°F... as opposed to 0°F - 3°F. This significantly reduces the chances of getting freezer burn.



As always - I'm trying to buy a Rolex on a Timex budget. :-laf



Matt

 

[Todd G]

Sub-Zero's are nice if you've got 7' clearance where the fridge goes. I've got one at home now and it works great. They do suck up a lot of power though. Check the liner if you find a used one. They can be expensive to repair. You pretty much have to have a custom opening built for the Zero's to look nice. They are not finished on the sides like a regular fridge.

 

[wes reeves]

Consumer Reports 2004 Buying Guide ranks major refrigerator brands as follows. These are rated by repairs and serious problems. 1 Being fewest repairs and problems 10 being most.



Top and Bottom Freezer with Icemaker:



1. Whirlpool

2. Kenmore (Sears)

3. KitchenAid

4. Kenmore (Sears)*

5. Amana*

6. Frigidaire

7. Amana

8. General Electric

9. Maytag

10. Sub-Zero*



*Bottom-Freezer



Side By Side With Icemaker & Dispenser



1. Whirlpool

2. KitchenAid

3. General Electric

4. Kenmore (Sears)

5. Amana

6. Frigidaire

7. Sub-Zero*

8. Maytag



*Icemaker only

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Where the fridge will end up is clear from floor to ceiling...

What exactly is the liner?



I'm willing to fudge the install for the time being until I can get other things in the house squared away.



Good comments, folks... keep 'em coming.



Having a fridge is important for when I move in... I can hand wash dishes (or try to use the existing old dishwasher... ) and go to the coin-op laundromat until it's time for me to shop for laundry equipment.



Matt

 

[ndennis]

Most current refers are R-134a and work well, but you can not allow them to overheat as the oil(poe) in 134 and 404 systems tends to coke up when too hot and then they plug the cap tube(s) and the unit suddenly stops cooling. R-12 uses the old mineral oil and it is alot more tolerant to overheating issues. Sub-Zeros are expensive and expensive to repair. They are large and heavy and use a commercial amount of electricity. Compressors are usually top mounted and can be a female dog to deal with work needs to be done. As far as a used refer goes, an R-12 unit is going to be close to 10 years old or more so price it accordingly. I do not think R-134 units will have the same life expectancy as the R-12 ones. Refers should be on their own dedicated 20 amp ciruit and never plug one into a ground fault circuit outlet or a circuit with a ground fault breaker. If you do, I guarrantee that the breaker and/or outlet will trip when you least expect it and/or when you go on vacation and a fridge full of spoiled food is one of the most disgusting smells you will ever experience.

N Dennis

 

[Todd G]

If the ceiling in your kichen is not at least 9' tall, they can be a bear to install They're only 26" deep so you can get through just about any doorway, but the 7' height makes it hard to get upright when in the kitchen.

The liner is the plastic part inside the door that the shelves are attached to. These tend to crack on the older models. Look carefully for cracks.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Ya'all are starting to scare me when it comes to Sub-Z's...

Maybe I ought to steer clear of 'em... I'm looking at used ones made after about 1996 or so... so they should be R-134a (or R-404?)



Is there any fridge you'd recommend if you think Sub-Z's are too problematic?



I've been looking at these commercial fridges as well:

True

Traulsen

Beverage-Air

Arctic Air

Turbo Air

... and even some laboratory grade stuff sold by Fisher Scientific.



The guy I have been emailing that seems to know a lot about Sub-Z's said that there are 'leaky valves' that he replaces and then all is well.



Also - from what I have read... systems with capillary tubes are more reliable than the rest, right?



Is there any truth in how bottom mount compressor/condensor systems use less energy (because gravity helps the compressor out)?



Thanks for the comments, info, tips. I'm learning a lot about fridges... that's for sure.



Matt

 

[ndennis]

HoleshotHolset: I do not know that Sub-Zero's are any more troublesome than others, just that due to the name they can be pricey to purchase and they(like most domestic type refers) are tight to work on. The fact that they are bulky and heavy just compounds the problem. A commercial grade refer is usually going to be noisier than any domestic refer, so take that into consideration when making your selection. I have dealt with True, Traulsen, Bev Aire, Sub-Zero and Arctic Air and I prefer working on the True models. Parts are relatively cheap to buy and easy to change out... . door gasket can be changed in minutes without needing to shim the door... thermostat can be changed in minutes also without a lot of swearing. Bottom mount design is relative easy to work on. I do not know about the system using less energy because it is a bottom mount... unless maybe because it is down low in the cooler air??? I am not fond of Traulsen as their engineers have obviously never worked on their stuff in the field and years down the road when they are grimed up because of their top mount design. Stay away from Arctic Air as they tend to cook their oil and plug the cap tube. As far as cap tube/expansion valves go, expansion valve is better but like any man made piece they can fail too. You have a higher probability of success in repairing a fridge in the event of a TXV failure than you will if a cap tube plugs up. Even after replacing a cap tube, they just dont seem to run right. Since Sub-Zero is right down the street from you, that may be the way to go. They are probably the only commercial grade unit that is going to give you the features that a home user wants... ice maker... water in the door.

N Dennis

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Excellent post, N Dennis!



I agree... the Sub-Z's are more bread to buy because of the name. They're built extremely well (from what I can tell... ) compared to 95% of the other consumer stuff.



I've never really heard a commercial refer... so I'm not sure how much louder they'd be. For the most part - it seems like the extra noise comes from the compressor being solidly mounted to the 'chassis'... as opposed to the consumer grade stuff being rubber mounted (and having much smaller compressors in general). I can deal with noise... so long as it isn't obnoxious - heck, I can deal with diesel noise just fine.



Funny you should mention the True brand... I took a liking to their T-23DT. It's a 23ft³ commercial grade refer/fridge combo, bottom mount compressor, etc. It's BEAUTIFUL! Just look at this thing... here's the glass door version:#ad




Okay - I stand corrected... expansion valves are better. What's a 'TXV failure'?



Sub-Z is right down the road... I may have to go bang on their door.



I'm not interested in the neat consumer features... I want a STOUT fridge that if/when it breaks down... I can repair the failed piece and move on. I guess the easiest way to say it is I want a 12-valve Cummins powered truck with no power options and rubber flooring instead of carpeting... I'm looking for the refrigerator equivalent of that. All the fancy schmancy crap is just another thing to fail.



Thanks a lot,



Matt

 

[ndennis]

Matt, sorry about that... TXV=Thermostatic "Expansion Valve. " The compressors and the condensor fan motor cause most if not all the noise. Domestic units have compressors so quiet that you need an amp meter just tell if it running. Commercial units like the True do create a bit of heat, but they are designed to be in constant use and need to cool fast. The T-23DT is nice..... now if you can find it in 230volt(not sure if thats possible), you can cut your operating costs in half. Understand that is just a refer and does not have a freezer section. The Sub-Zero's I have worked on in the past have both a refer side and a freezer side with 2 separate compressors. Most popular Trues out there are going to be the T-23 and T-49. They do use a capillary tube setup, but I have found that they are as reliable as anything I have ever worked on. Keep the condensor coil clean and free of dust using compressed air or nitrogen and make sure the fan motor does not fail(thats true for every refer, not just True's). Only one that I gave up on, was a T-19 that was in a spa resort here in the Napa Valley. The air and water there had a high concentration of sulphur which litterally ate the copper refrigeration lines up and attacked every brazed joint making it leak like a sieve. The sulphur has claimed the life of 2 refers, 1 ice machine, and 1 walk-in evaporator. They are not too happy with the news, but thats the cost of doing business and the sulphur springs is what makes their clients come back. I have worked on True, Bev Aire, Traulsen, Delfield, Hobart, Superior, Arctic Air, Victory, and others that I do not recall and for some reason the True's seem be easiest to repair and parts do not cost an arm and a leg.

N Dennis

 

[TORQUE THIS]

IGLOO makes a pretty sweet 120v / 12v cooler...

 

[Todd G]

Unless you have a 48" or 60" wide fridge space, I would stick to the domestic models. The price difference can be



I have a GE Profile that looks built-in and has wood panels on the front. I paid less than 2K. A Sub-Zero of the same size will cost twice that. Do they cool any better? Maybe a little. But 2K worth? I think not.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

N Dennis: The True T-23DT is a dual temperature fridge/freezer with separate cooling systems. I sent an email to find out if it can run on 220V... thanks for catching that.



Todd G: Sub-Zero's are a lot of bread... but they build 'em like brick outhouses. They make some 35" wide models... so they'll fit into some houses... the overall installed height is another story.



Mark: You're a big help. :-laf



Matt

 

[MFalkinham]

Matt, I bought a Whirlpool side-by-side with an in-door ice bin about 3 years ago. So far it has been problem free and quiet. My only regret about buying it was not getting the optional button to lock the door ice dispenser. Turns out my Great Dane figured out how to get her ice cube "treats" whenever she wants them, and proceeds to make a big wet mess on the floor!



Actually, all of my kitchen appliances are Whirlpools less than 5 years old. The only problem was with our built-in oven, which Whirlpool repaired onsite and under warranty.



- Mike

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Mike: Thanks for the input. In the end - I'll probably have to get a consumer model to start out with... and then once I get used to paying for a house - UPGRADE it!



I've never heard anything bad about Whirlpool...



Matt

 

[TORQUE THIS]

After you settle your search for the ultimate fridge, I'd figure the next thing will be the "Ultimate Crapper"... :-laf

 

[MFalkinham]

Sounds like a "Ferguson" toilet might be in Matt's future!! Whoaaaaaa Bundys!!!!