Regular Cabs with upgraded stereo systems -

[KatDiesel]

<font color=blue>Getting a new stereo system today, and was wondering if anyone out there has 3 10" Subwoofers behind the seat and what you think of the sound?

Those of you who upgraded the stereo system what kinda speaker setups do you have??

It'll consist of 3 10" RockFord Fosgates behind the seat, and 1 RockFord Fosgate amp to push them (Punch 360 I think is the model number).

I'll have more "specific" details later today on the rest of the parts... ... .

Going with a Kenwood head unit.

 

[Cooker]

KAT,
Are you set on the Kenwood CD? The DIN and 1/2 units from Pioneer and Alpine really look much nicer in the factory location IMO. Just a thought.

As far as subwoofers behind the seat. In my gasser I had (4) 10" Sounstreams SS10R running off a soundstream amp pushing each woofer with around 75 watts each. Even though they were a little underpowered they sounded great, and had plently of volume. In my CTD I am only planning on installing only 2 subs with a little larger amplifier. This way I don't give up much space and I'll get plently of sound out of 2 woofers.

Through the years I have installed quite a few stero's in standard cab trucks. The best system I've installed, as far as overall quality and "bang for the buck" consisted of (2) 8" Fosgate subs in a ported box. One in a 94 Ram and one in a 94 Ford. These "little" 8's in a properly ported box with 100 to 125 watts of power a piece really have great output, and the nice thing is you don't lose too much storage space. If I didn't already own the 10's I definitely install a pair of 8's.

Why are you thinking of going with three woofers? Is retaining storage space behind the seat an issue? Are you shooting for a crazy loud system or one that cranks well with good sound quality? Finally what type of music do you listen to? Unless you are a "basshead" or listen to a lot of rap music I think you'd be very happy with (2) 10" woofers, or even (2) 8" woofers.

Also if you decied to go with two woofers you can save some money on the amp. The Fosgate 200a1 (I'm not sure if this is the newest model number) is a mono sub amp rated at 200 watts at a 2ohm load. This is severly under-rated as the last one I installed tested at 315 watts at a 2ohm load, that's 157. 5 watts/speaker. This amp retails in stero shops around here for $225 and be found on the internet for around $190. IMO this amp delivers the best bang for the buck when shopping for a sub amp. Don't worry about not having "in stero" bass, you'd never know the difference.

Sorry to make this so lengthy, Ryan



[This message has been edited by Cooker (edited 03-11-2001). ]

 

[KatDiesel]

<font color=blue>Yes I am set on the Kenwood unit. . it plays MP3's and there are only a few that I liek the display on... I am picky about looks of products! Plus I like the display on it.

I am going 3 10"'s because that what he suggested, or 4 8"'s. I listen to country 90% of the time with rock and other assorted music the other 10%. I don't want "ghetto bass" I want loud crisp clear sound.

The amp is a 360, but its rated at 534 watts. The amp is $300.

Guess I'll see how it sounds in a couple hours..... theres a 90 day garentee so I can trade up or down for full credit.

The storage space behind the seat is not an issue.

I'll post the model numbers of the stuff later, but its Kenwood deck, Punch360 amp, 3 RF2 10" subs, new 6x9's for the door. He suggested leaving the factory tweeters in since only the radio will be powering them.

Thanks for your reply.
<font size=-2>


[This message has been edited by KatDiesel (Eric Howard) (edited 03-11-2001). ]

 

[Cooker]

KAT
I was unaware that Kenwood is now making and MP3 unit. I'm shopping for an MP3 CD player, but waiting for a DIN and 1/2 unit.

It sounds like the shop was fair priced and treated you well. (3) 10's may have been a bit much for your music style IMHO, but it doesn't appear that there would have been a great cost savings with only installing two. Plus I guess it's always better to over-BOMB than under-BOMB.

All that really matters is that you are happy with the way it sounds, and looking at what you now have installed I think you'll be very happy with your new system. Fosgate make an excellent amplifiers and subwoofers. Who know's, maybe you'll buy a few "bass CD's" just to show off your new system every now and then.

Ryan

 

[Arcticat]

Here's what I did in my regular cab truck - I replaced the door speakers with Pioneer 6X9 three ways. They will tell you that it won't fit but it will if you have an ST, I don't know if they will fit with the power locks and windows. You could also get two ways and they would probably have a small enough deck clearance to work. Otherwise you are stuck replacing the factory 6X8's with 61/2 rounds, which just dont handle volume like a 6X9. Anyways, I put new 61/2 Pioneer three ways in place of the stockers on the cab corners. I powered these off a Pioneer Chrysler/GM fit DIN and a half head unit. Like Cooker I hate trim rings around regular DIN stuff to cover up the gaps. This Pioneer head just slipped right in without any support bracket like you need with a standard DIN installation. IMHO it's a waste of time to put an amp in to drive your mid and high range, they just don't need all that power if they are not being relied upon for the lower frequencies. I put 300HZ Bass Blockers on all four speakers so they can focus on the job they are designed and sized for. The Pioneer DIN and a half head has room in the chassis for it's own MOSFET45 amp at 25watts X 4, which is more than enough for mid and high range. I used the Subwoofer preamp jacks on the head and went to a 100W X2 amp which powers two Bazooka bass tubes behind the seat. They are a PERFECT fit for the floor tray in a regular cab. One aimed into each cab corner is plenty of bass. Another thing I think is important is to make sure you put foam baffles on all the speakers and use more than just the four screws they give you to install the speakers. This will ensure you don't have oh so annoying vibrations and resonance at high volume. I have had to rip off the door panels on more than one install to fix this problem after the fact cause I didn't do it the first time.
Kat, I am a high volume metal and hard rock listener. IMHO three 10" subs is way overkill for country music. When you get all three subs in, adjust the crossover on you amp to your liking, then put the gain and bass boost controls on your amp to 0 (note not the lowest setting, but rather the middle between -5 and +5 for example). Turn the bass all the way up on the head unit and the loudness on. If you get to much bass at this point you have to much subwoofer for the job. Setting the controls to less than above to suit your ear means IMHO that you have more Sub than you can use.

[This message has been edited by Arcticat (edited 03-11-2001). ]

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by Cooker:
I was unaware that Kenwood is now making and MP3 unit. I'm shopping for an MP3 CD player, but waiting for a DIN and 1/2 unit.

It sounds like the shop was fair priced and treated you well.

Well they had two different Kenwood models that played MP3's. One was $425 and the other was $600.

The shop has treated me "ok" until bout 15 mins ago. Told me my truck won't be done before they close tonight because another customer came in and spent $10,000 so they took care of him even tho he arrived after me. So I won't get it back until tommorrow morning hopefully before I have to head for work in the afternoon.

I'll get back to the other replies/questions in a bit when I cool down, gonna go watch a movie.

Crappy weather, crappy day... ... .

 

[Arcticat]

Kat, tell this shop to SHOVE it. People who install stereos for a living are usually HACKS in my experience. I started doing business with www.crutchfield.com several years ago and I will never buy any carstereo stuff from anybody else. Their customer service is untouchable in my opinion. I have bought many systems from them over the years for myself and others. Their prices are very competitive, their selection is unparraleled, you pay no sales tax, they give you the custom wiring harness and DIN trim kit for free that any local shop will charge you for. I could go on nd on. Yes you have to install it but they give you step by step instructions for every piece of equipment you buy , and the instructions are specific to YOUR truck year, cab, trim level, etc. BELIEVE me, installing cd players, amps, subs, etc. is not rocket science, anybody with half a brain to their name can pull it off EASY. And it's just more money in your pocket.

 

[csutton7]

Since I grew up in good ol' Nebraska your country music can never be loud enuff-right KAT--pump it out--I do in my quadcab w/ the JL Audio twin 10" box under the rear seat with 400 amps powering that baby---she's loud--good luck--great info guys---chris

 

[Cooker]

Arcticat,
Be careful, I installed car audio equipment for a while.

To be honest I'd have to agree with you 100%. The majority of your run of the mill car audio installers are HACKS. The reason is at most shops these guys are lucky to break the $10/hour barrier. I've "been there/done that" and there are a few very skilled, intelligent, installers who are genuinely nice people, but they are few and far between.

KAT,
If you are that upset tell them to get lost, if you can. For anyone is intelligent enough to install gauges, car audio installation is a piece of cake. The only thing you may want to do is have the shop build the sub enclosure for you if you don't have access to the proper tools.

I'll agree with Crutchfield's customer service being top notch, but you have to watch their prices sometimes. The Fosgate amp that KAT will have in his truck list for $399 (I assume it is the Punch series and not the Power series) in Crutchfield and I found it from an online vendor I've dealt with in the past for $275.

I hope all works out well for you KAT.

 

[KatDiesel]

<font color=blue>Crutchfield may have decent customer service, but their prices are something to "Watch" for tho. I found the same amp at Best Buy for $399 (I am getting for $300).

And I stressed at how clean this install had to be because I am so picky, and the pictures they showed me of other stuff they did looked real good. Basically they only had one guy on it this afternoon instead of two that they had intended. I am waiting to see how it turns out tommorrow before I get too upset over it. The guy even offered to come pick me up when the truck is done (since i don't have a lift).

We'll see how it turns out tommorrow... ... . and more importantly how it sounds.

I realize I could do it myself, but its snowing/sleeting and my truck doesn't fit in my garage. In the wintertime I rarely do anything myself..... I hate winter, I hibernate like a bear. Eaiser just to have them do it.

csutton7 -

You might be surprised to know the "majority" of music around here people like doesn't seem to be country. But I ain't from here... ... just live here.

Shocked me when I first noticed it... . <font size=-2>

[This message has been edited by KatDiesel (Eric Howard) (edited 03-11-2001). ]

 

[Big_Bad_Dually]

Ive got two 10 inchers under my rear seat. They sound fine, loud enough to make my head hurt after a while. #ad
#ad
They are AudioBahns with a 800w RMS Legacy amp giving each one 400w.

When ever time permits I'm gonna install my 4 Blapunkt 6x9's and 600Wx4 Max output Legacy amp. Right now I only have time to install things like South Bend Clutches and Diesel Performance LP injection, and stuff. #ad
#ad
#ad

#ad

 

[Big_Bad_Dually]

OH YEAH!!!
I listen to Country 85% of the time and everything else the other 15%. #ad

 

[klenger]

I'm not sure if I'm going to fit in with this group. (Smooth) jazz and classical for me.

KatDiesel:
Where is Rolla Colorado? That's were the UPRR car with my new truck is headed. If you wouldn't mind tracking it, the number is TTGX987325.

Thanks


------------------
Ken Lenger
On Order - 2001. 5 2500 QC 4X4 SWB SLT, ETC/DDX 5 Speed, 3. 55 (no antispin), camper group, trailer folding mirrors, RBR CD/Radio, LT265/75R16E AT OWL tires, trailer tow group, Patroit Blue / Agate,
Replaces 98 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 which is for sale.
Trailite 21' Travel Trailer, ~4000 lbs loaded.

 

[KatDiesel]

I meant to email you.

Rolla is in the Denver "area" I have to find out still because I am not sure. I just know its where they unload the cars and trucks off the railcars. I was watching the train with your truck on it go across texas on Friday night. I was off Saturday and today so I will check on it Monday afternoon at work.

I do know it was going to spend about 3 days in the North Platte (NE) yard. Last OS point I had on it was Winslow TX 3/9/01 2019. Like I said this was Friday night.

Lemmie try to see if the car is at northplatte still.

 

[KatDiesel]

Load Departed Marysvill, KS Mar 11 22:12
Load Scheduled Arrival Npltwest, NE Mar 12 6:27
Load Scheduled Departure Npltwest, NE Mar 13 17:00
Load Scheduled Arrival Rolla, CO Mar 14 4:32

Thats the latest on it as of right now. (Checked it from home)

Hope that helps

 

[Arcticat]

Kat, who told you that that amp puts out 534watts? Fosgate makes two punch360 amps, the 360. 2 and the 360a2 Both of them make 360watts RMS bridged into 4ohms. Even peak output, which is a meaningless number that these shops like to quote to make you think you are getting more than you are, is only 450watts bridged into 4ohms. Whoever told you that either of these amps put out 534watts is lying I think. Also which Punch 360 did you get, the 360. 2 or the 360a2? My latest Crutchfield catalog has the 360a2 at $319. 95. Like I said they are not always the lowest on price, but they are usually lower than most stereo shops when you include sales tax and the fact that they most of them make you buy the wiring harness and trim kit that Crutchfield gives you for free. Plus you get no questions postage prepaid returns, heck I've even returned stuff that broke after the warranty was up with no problems. And they have GREAT tech support after the sale if you have any questions on the install.

Cooker hit the nail on the head, most of these installers get paid $$%^ while the shop charges them out for ten times that. Believe me, if you are really picky about your interior and the install, you should do it yourself, it will come out alot better. All of the above is JMHO of course.

 

[Arcticat]

Kat, who told you that that amp puts out 534watts? Fosgate makes two punch360 amps, the 360. 2 and the 360a2 Both of them make 360watts RMS bridged into 4ohms. Even peak output, which is a meaningless number that these shops like to quote to make you think you are getting more than you are, is only 450watts bridged into 4ohms. Whoever told you that either of these amps put out 534watts is lying I think. Also which Punch 360 did you get, the 360. 2 or the 360a2? My latest Crutchfield catalog has the 360a2 at $319. 95. Like I said they are not always the lowest on price, but they are usually lower than most stereo shops when you include sales tax and the fact that they most of them make you buy the wiring harness and trim kit that Crutchfield gives you for free. Plus you get no questions postage prepaid returns, heck I've even returned stuff that broke after the warranty was up with no problems. And they have GREAT tech support after the sale if you have any questions on the install.

Cooker hit the nail on the head, most of these installers get paid $$%^ while the shop charges them out for ten times that. Believe me, if you are really picky about your interior and the install, you should do it yourself, it will come out alot better. All of the above is JMHO of course.

 

[K_Arts]

Kat... sounds like it's too late to give you some advice, but to be honest with you, I'd go with 2 10" subs over 3. You honestly don't have the volume for the 3 subs behind your seat. With the seat back, your subs will be acting like a bandpass push-pull sequence but will be underpowered, which will make then distort in a bad way (cause you have to remember that your subs are fighting against the seat).

I used to install Competition Stereo systems back in CA, I have dealt with this many times. First off what you need to do is figure out how much volume your speakers need, versus what you have and go from there, have a custom enclosure made. You will have to port your boxes to make up for some extra airflow. If you do not you subs will have too much resistance inside the box. If not, then after time your subs will sound very muddy. This is do to the lack of travel that they have in such a compressed area. Do also take in account that with your situation you need to have your subs crossed over no higher then 300hz... .

Trust me on this one... I can give you some references that will back up what I am saying!!!

One other thing that will back up what I am saying is this. Take in account that Fosgate only makes one enclosure that consists of 3 10" subs and it will not fit in your truck!!! You'll see because of the air volume that these subs need that Fosgate only makes a hatchback style box.

Which tells me that this enclosure that you are looking at was just thrown together by the local stereo install dude that is making $10/hr. Go to someone that cares about sound and knows what they are doing... not to some local shop in which the people don't know jack!

IMHO I also have to say that I would stay away from Fosgate subs. Fosgate makes very good mids and tweets, but their subs are very low in quality and CAN NOT in any way compete with brands like Soundstream, Kicker, Orion, JL Audio, Boston Acoustics... etc. I know that you are not after Competition sound... but if quality is what you want... you gotta pay for it.

Guys I know that I keep babbling on about this... but last off is this. According to the box that is on Fosgates website, it's nominal Impedance is 2. 67ohms. Which I have to say that the Punch 360 will not handle a 2 ohm bridged load. It will overheat itself. So Eric, you better find out how these speakers are wired and what the final impedance is so that these clowns don't sell you something that will burn itself up due to their lack of knowledge.

Kev

Here's a link to a pdf that is the box dimensions that Fosgate makes Rockford Fosgate 10" tri-sub enclosure

Also note... that you may have do so something different with your infinity speakers cause they are preamplified.


[This message has been edited by K_Arts (edited 03-12-2001). ]

[This message has been edited by K_Arts (edited 03-12-2001). ]

 

[Cooker]

Kev,
I too used to install competition grade stero systems, and I'm gonna have to disagree with you on Fosgate's subs. I wouldn't install them in a competition car, although at one time I did install (4) old style Fosgate Power 12's in a competition vehicle, but they are a very good sub IMO, especially for the money.

I'd also like to disagree that there isn't enough room behind the seat for three subs. Of all the standard cab trucks I've worked on, new and old Chevy, new and old Dodge, and old Fords (haven't worked on any new Fords yet), the late model Dodges have a ton of room behind the seat. In a sealed box, I had (4) Soundstream SS10r's that was designed to perfectly match Soundstreams specs on the volume, and my seats didn't push against the woofers.

I foud it odd that you commented on the box on Fosgates website with three woofers. (I see that your's were custom built as well) In all of the boxes I've built and installed, we NEVER installed a prebuilt manufactured box (if we were a JL dealer I'm sure we would have installed a few of there "stealth boxes for vehicles). All of our sub enclosures were customed designed to match the brand of woofer installed and fit the dimensions of the individual vehicle. This is one area if you are going to build it yourslf, your have to trust the installer has "some" skills. Sorry I seen you were talking about ported boxes. Obviously woofers need a larger air volume if the box is ported and 4, or even 3, subs may not fit depending on the specs for the woofer.

Kev, I too am wondering how the shop plan on wiring KAT's three woofers, are they DVC or SVC?

BTW 300hz to crossover subs seems a little high IMO, but again with KAT's music style, a higher crossover point may be a little better.

Arcticat,
As far as KAT stating the AMP's output of 535, Fosgate severly under-rates the power output of their amplifiers. This is not just with Fosgate, but any quality amplifier ie Soundstream, PPI, Fosgate, Orion, ect. Obviously each of these MFG's make a higher quality and lesser quality amplifier, but their top of the line amps usually produce more than their rated output. The last Fosgate amp I installed was a 200a1 rated at 200 watts output at 2ohm and it tested at 315watts output at 2ohm.

Fosgate makes (2) 360 model amps, the Power and the Punch series. The new models are delegated Power 360. 2 and Punch 360. 2. The old models are Power 360a2 and Punch 360a2. If KAT s getting a new model the price of $300 is great for especaill if it's a Power series amp because they sell for ~$80 more than the Punch. The price you seen in Crutchfield, as I have it in front of me, is for the old series of amplifier and I assume Crutchfield is wanting to get rid of these. The new style Punch 360. 2 sells in Crutchfield for $399 and the Power 360. 2 sells for $479.

I'm not trying to argue with anybody here, just merely expressing my opinions.

Ryan

 

[K_Arts]

Ryan - to some point I do agree with you, but I have noticed in many installs that within regular cab pickups, the speakers end up distorting far quicker then normal. Being that normally there is only about 3 - 4 inches of air in between the seat and the enclosure that the subs seem to fight the air being pushed against the seat, thus causing them to distort. Distortion is usually caused by 2 scenarios. Being underpowered and having an improper enclosure.

To answer your question, yes all of my enclosures have been custom built by myself. In my first car, I had 4 DVC Soundstream 12" subs. I peaked over 148db and actually blew my front windshielf out of the frame. I do have to agree that SoundStream subs do like working in small volume enclosures, and their subs are awesome, especially for the price. That is why we used them in about 90% of our competition installs (besides the fact that there shop was located down the street from me in CA. I was in Sacramento, while they are in Folsom).

Though Fosgates subs do like more space to breath. I would say that each of them would at least need a cubic foot.

JMHO, but from everybody that I know that has installed Fosgate subs, I can count the amount people that still have them on one hand. . and that is sad. Yes they are a cheap sub, but you can find a better sub for around the same price.

I have seen many Fosgate subs fail in my days. . and I don't want to see Eric walk away disapppointed with his purchase.

Like you said Ryan... not trying to argue. . just expressing my opinion

Kev