Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Remington 5r

[Flying_gage]

Bought this a couple weeks back and the following are my thoughts, (and how I ended up where I am).



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Why:

-Last bolt was a 1976 Ruger M77 in /06. As I had hundreds of rounds for my . 308, it just kind of did not make sense to hold onto it.

-And of course I could so...



Why the Remmy and not another brand:

-It just spoke to me. Heard a ton of good about them and well, it just kind of spoke to me...



Experience:

-Between this gun and the above Ruger, I have about 200rds of bolt action adventure. Can cut that down to about 100 rds where I am really trying to put some effort into getting good groups.



Set-up:

-Vortex PST FFP 4-16x50 in leupold rings and base.

-1" Foam padding wrapped in horse tape for proper eye relief and stance

-Adjustable trigger turned down as much as possible, (from factory supposed to be 3. 5 pounds; adjusting it only made it kind of unpredictable).

-25 rds through her as of the following picture



Conditions today:

-100 yards

-44 degrees

-Quartering tail wind between 10-15kts.

-bench with bags both in front and back



With the above said, here we go with the results.



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Rough measurement seems to be just over an MOA, if I am figuring it correctly?

This was accomplished using CBC 168gr HPBT "Sniper" ammunition.



All in all I am pretty happy! I am still learning but feel as though this is pretty decent with what I have currently, (Not previous military or any education). I am surprised at how much over controlling on my shooting hand effects the groups. As soon as I started "gripping" the stock with anything above VERY gentle pressure, my groups open up considerably!



Next upgrade will be a trigger! Every shot seems different. I compare it to a Jewel trigger,(supplied by HHuntitall) in my 20" AR that holds no surprises and breaks at the same place each and every time.



I know I won't be shooting F-class anytime soon. Yet between a trigger and some hand loads, my goal is to get her below . 75.



Thoughts?

 

[Sticks]

Home brew ammo will tighten up your groups considerably, especially if you take the time to do the ladder loads to find the sweet spot that rifle likes.

How do you like the glass on that Vortex optic?

There is a pile of basic marksmanship skills to apply, natural point of aim (about 3 paragraphs there), breathing, cheek weld, trigger pull and reset, follow through, etc. Not sure what your prior training or experience is.

 

[GHarman]

Flying_Gage

Yes, all of the above! However, after you have tried all of the hand loading/tuning techniques (Don't forget checking the tang screws for tightness and torque) and find you still have unexplained fliers? All else being properly dealt with?

You may want to inspect the bedding between the receiver in that H-S Precision stock.

Remington 700 actions are not perfectly round! The one I assembled, chambered for the . 30/338, sits in an H-S stock, is . 007" out of round.

So, I hand fit the receiver to the bedding by scraping in the aluminum bedding chassis in the stock, using lamp black on the receiver.

Then I did a skim coat of Marinetex epoxy as a final bed between the stock chassis and the receiver and recoil lug. Careful here. Don't jam the recoil lug with bedding compound.

Dang thing shoots better than I can hold it. Course, that is a relative comparison! I don't pound out long strings with this rifle. It is my primary elk hunting tool. It presently is pushing the 1000 round mark on the barrel.

The barrel would be long gone if I shot it like a match rifle in competitive conditions. My reloads for this application are hotter than hot. As far as the accuracy is concerned, Lets just say that my last 2 shots at 500 yards were in the center spotter, 1 1/4" apart! If I am able to hunt, this year, I will fire about 40-50 rounds (over a couple of days) from 200 out to 600 yards (just with this rifle) at a game specific silhouette to refamiliarize myself with its unique characteristics.

The load for the . 30/338 is a 190 Gr. Sierra Match King, Moly Coated ahead of 69 Gr of Reloader 19. This load leaves extractor marks on the cases. Neck sized only in a tight necked minimum chamber. MV is >3000 FPS. I haven't "chronographed" it, but it is close to those loads that have been similar weight and "chronographed". (Had to use quote marks on the words so the instant spell check would not change it to choreographed:{)

Definitely interested in your experience with the Vortex FFP scope!

I presently have a 4. 5X14 Leupold on my elk hunting rifle. Would like to kick up the magnification and move this scope to the . 308/ M-40 artistic endeavor!

Love that group! Looks like real possibilities.

GregH

 

[Flying_gage]

Home brew ammo will tighten up your groups considerably, especially if you take the time to do the ladder loads to find the sweet spot that rifle likes.

How do you like the glass on that Vortex optic?

There is a pile of basic marksmanship skills to apply, natural point of aim (about 3 paragraphs there), breathing, cheek weld, trigger pull and reset, follow through, etc. Not sure what your prior training or experience is.

Sticks I have really focused upon the basics. I have pored through all the long range type sites, looking for ways to improve my end of the bargain. It has helped significantly and I still have further to go! I know that the gun will continue to shoot better than me for the foreseeable future. My goal is to get to that sooner than later. Hand loads will definitely be part of the process!

The only improvement that I will do in the near future is a trigger. Like I mentioned in the OP, the trigger doesn't behave consistently.

GHarman I have already planned to do that, (bedding, torquing etc. . ). For better or worse, I want to get all my basics down, (with this rifle) prior to fiddling with the mechanics. That way I have a repeatable basis from which to move forward. Then I will know that I am making progress.

In regards to the glass, let me offer my experience to date with Glass. I have owned two scopes, both lower end products that got the job done.

In looking for my first higher end glass, I had a $700 budget. It is a long twisted story and one I was asked not to delve into, but I started with a mil dot HS-T and, when that didn't work for me, I ended up with the PST in FFP. I came in approx $150 under budget in the end... If you can read between the lines, Vortex's customer service on the front end is very good . I hope not to have to comment on the back end, but believe it would be all it has been described as. On an aside, I asked if the scopes go back overseas when they come in for service. I was told that they do not. My educated guess is that the customer will receive a new scope if there are significant problems. I say this because I went to the corporate headquarters and they did not appear to have a significant workshop there.

In terms of the scope and it's quality of construction, I cannot offer too much beyond what is well documented in the reviews out there. It works and is very solid! I have not truly tested the scope out beyond getting her sited in, (very easy). Even though I cannot speak to tracking, I can say that it does appear to change it's point of impact correspondingly to adjustments made on the scope. I will work it through its tracking on my next outing, hopefully.

Low light it rocks! Very good clarity! I can see a usage for the lit reticle down the road should I ever get down south for boars. Clarity throughout the range of focus is very good. In the back of my mind, I keep comparing it a 3x9 swarovski that I looked through. It is close to that, but falls down at the extreme upper end when a SLIGHT blurring comes in at the edges. That Swaro did not suffer from that, yet was $900 and did not have the options that this did...

Was a little nervous when it came to the FFP due to some of the reading that I have done. When it was in my grubby little hand, those concerns disappeared! The lines at 16 power are not obtrusive. I think they got it right. Then again I am not shooting at 600-1000 yds, (Yet).

I hope this helps those who are curious! I think the scope does offer options that cannot be reached with other big name scopes at a this price point. I will be happy to go back to them again for my next new scope! When at the corporate store, I did have the chance to play with the Razor HD series and although heavy, it was CLEAR; kind of like an ocular orgasm clear!

 

[HHhuntitall]

Flying Gage,



Ammo downrange. That's what you need now. Make yourself comfortable, get acquainted with 'er and keep the bore clean. If you bought it new, you need to keep the copper out of it and try to get it broke in, IMO. Hammer forged barrels are notorious for fouling... . Sharp Shooter Patch out/Wipe out is the best I've ever used. No need for a brush, just wet it down, get the powder fouling out, and let it soak for 20 minutes, then patch it out some more, until there's no blue color. Works fantastic on anything I've used to date. I'd suggest shooting 5 shot groups then cleaning it the first few days. After it gets 60-100 rounds, then you can do longer strings, IMO. It probably needs it ever 40-60 rounds, either way.....



Triggers are easy to come by for that platform. I'd suggest the new Timney for cost, perhaps a Jewell, but they're high. There are at least 20 different manufacturers that make decent to very good triggers for the Remington.



What works for some won't work for others. Keep tweaking with your grip, stance, etc. , until you find a combination that works for you. Home brew ammo will definitely help accuracy, but I know that's in the future for you. I suggest Federal or Lake City ammo. The 168 Sierra Match king load is fantastic in those rifles, usually. But every one is different, in my experience, so just keep playing. You need the practice to keep pulling the group down, not that you're doing bad!! That's an excellent start with a new rifle.



Also, when cleaning the barrel, work it from the breech, not the muzzle. Nicking the crown is a death sentence for accuracy!! We haven't discussed that.....



Sharp looking rig, keep us updated on how it, and the optic keeps working!!

 

[Flying_gage]

HH ~ Thanks man! I have started reloading on the . 223 and feel pretty comfortable in doing so. No time like the present to upgrade to . 30 caliber! Just trying to find the SMK's are a little hard. If you have a lead, let me know!

I will buy from you for the trigger. You wouldn't happen to have a jewel laying around like the one that just didn't work for your AR project but for a remmy 700, would ya? Cause it has worked out great for me on this end! LOL! Seriously just let me know what you have in stock and I might have to wait a week or so, but will definitely take it as I feel that is my hindrance right now. That and the fact that I am shooting some pretty cheesy ammo now... But with that being said though, South African ball ammo shoots pretty damn nicely out of this girl; solid moa.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Loading . 308 is no different, just a little scaled up. Following directions and being ever attentive to detail is the most important thing you can do, as I'm sure you've heard. Lee, RCBS, and Redding are my suggestions on dies... . What are you using, now?

I can get a few bullets available, nothing in stock I can part with. I shoot the Sierra seconds for hunting a lot, and practice sometimes. But I can't sell you those... . But my wholesalers have a few bullets available, such as the 175 Tactical Berger, 175, 185, 190, 210 Hunting Berger VLD, 155, 168 Berger Targets, SierraMK 175s... . What are you looking for? I also show a few of the 175 and 190 SMKs in bulk 500 boxes... .

On the trigger, I don't have any used Jewell triggers for the Remmy's... . I've got some new ones I can beat the price on just about anyone, with, though... . I can do the 700 with safety for around $200 if you're interested... . the new Timney may be an option for you, too. They're around $80-50 cheaper... . None of them are real cheap... I get my Jewell's directly from the Mfg. , and try to keep a few in stock for my shooting friends... . They're made here in Texas, by the way.....

What powder are you using, too? Just curious. I prefer Varget and H4350, myself.

 

[Flying_gage]

Casey I am gonna try cfe223, (I am still struggling in finding known components here). Sounds as though it shares similarities to Varget, which probably isn't a fluke as they are made by the same folks. Found a couple promising threads in it's usage for . 308's. Also have stumbled across a couple in regards to high pressures... Will ladder it up carefully!

My press is an RCBS. My dies so far are lee's. For the . 308, I am seriously considering getting the die from Forster. They are right up the road from me and I am planning to make a trip up there in the coming days to hear their pitch to part with extra cash for their product.

I know that I will not see the minuscule benefit right away from stuff like that. However, I know that each little component has it's own inherent reliability. Figure if I can afford it on the front end, it may make my learning curve not only easier but faster. Thoughts?

I will probably go with the SMK 175's to start. After that, I will experiment.

 

[Sticks]

...
I know that I will not see the minuscule benefit right away from stuff like that. However, I know that each little component has it's own inherent reliability. Figure if I can afford it on the front end, it may make my learning curve not only easier but faster. Thoughts?...

So many powders, primers, bullets on the available market (theoretically), one could spend a small fortune trying and testing different combinations to see what actually works best. Most dedicated reloaders will tell you that there is no shortcut, you need to buy the books, read the manuals, and do the testing. Truth be told, you ask the questions and go with what you feel confident with as a start.

I personally have been using Accurate, and only because it has been what is available and affordable for my pistol and rifle reloading. I suspect I am having a problem with unburnt powder and should either research a solution to that, or switch something out (primers, powder... ).

But, I don't have an excessive smoke problem - which I have seen with what some use, nor a lead vapor issue (seen some really pretty markings on some targets from the lead vapor trail).

 

[HHhuntitall]

I use a lot of the RL15 in my . 223, it's good product! I really like RL25 and 22, but it's dual base components make it very tempermental in temperature change.....

 

[Flying_gage]

So many powders, primers, bullets on the available market (theoretically), one could spend a small fortune trying and testing different combinations to see what actually works best. Most dedicated reloaders will tell you that there is no shortcut, you need to buy the books, read the manuals, and do the testing. Truth be told, you ask the questions and go with what you feel confident with as a start.

It truly is mind boggling the amount of options/opinions out there! If I have gleaned anything so far it is that one has to settle on a set of variables that works for them, massaging them into the best possible outcome they objectively can achieve. It is in this initial process where one learns the largest amount in my opinion as it teaches you the questions that NEED to be asked.

The best thing about this sub-forum is that it is populated by some truly "high speed-low drag" people who are willing to share what they know. To me that is huge and insanely beneficial.

If I cannot achieve repeatable, objective results with the CFE223 then I will bite the bullet, ( )and send my card info off to one of the big suppliers for better known powder. It is my hope that hodgdon imparted enough of Varget into that powder that it will work. That would be the best case scenario and appeal to the tightwad in me.

In addition Sticks, I bought a 12x leupold that is currently being serviced in Beaverton... With it it sparkly and fresh, I sure hope to add further to your AR build thread

 

[GHarman]

In my experience with the . 308, H-4895 and WW-748 are excellent performers. 'Course, 40 years ago, IMR-4064 was , for a long time, a go-to powder choice.

The older lots of WW-748 were very temperamental, with excellent groups were fired with fresh reloads. If ya let the a batch of ammo sit for a few months, the groups opened up quite a bit. I have no idea why!

H-4895 seems to really work well when your pressures are maintained below 50,000 PSI. This powder was originally designed for the . 30 M-1 (172 gr. ) and M-2 (150 Gr) service loads. (N. O. P. 47,000 PSI)

These were used in the 1903 Springfield/1917 Enfield and the US M-1 Garand rifles.

While the original lots of H-4895 are long gone, the new stuff has similar characteristics. It is erratic when used in high pressure loads.

I am just learning the preferences of Varget, and have yet to try my stash of MR 2000 and CFE-223.

Presently tweaking my . 308 (Ruby :-laf ) with Nosler ballistic tips for a possible shot at a Cow Elk, next month, if all goes well?

It does like 44 Gr. of H-4895 with Moly Coated Berger 155 Gr. and RE-15 with the Moly Coated 175 Gr. Sierra MK!



OH!

AND Primers!

Try CCI BR-2 primers for the H-4895.

Fed 210M for the Varget and RE-15. Some powders have primer preferences!

When I was using the WW-748, I was using WW large rifle primers. I have no up-to-date WW-748 experience.



Hope you get your 5R fine tuned!



GregH

 

[Sticks]

My last buy for primers (got in the buying a little late) was 10k of CCI BR-4 for my 5. 56 reloading. Hope they work - might be to soft and run into slam fires. OK on powder, Fat on cases, screwed on bullets. About ready to trade my excess Federal Small Pistol primers for some bullets.

 

[GHarman]

Sticks,
Get a primer pocket uniforming prep tool.
Those PP will create problems with seating the primer consistently.
The rounded corners inside, need to be cut square so the primer will seat all the way without crushing the cup.
It is ALOT of hand work but a cordless drill really speeds up the process.
What bullets do you need? Brand, weight, etc?
GregH

 

[Sticks]

Yes, reaming primer pockets is a PITA. I came up with this.

I'll save the long story. Here is a link to my 5. 56 reloading process from the Loadmaster forum.

The bullets I prefer are the Hornady 55gr FMJBT w/Cannalure for general use and training. When I hit the man cave for a day or weekend to do up some ammo, I'll load up around 1k - 2k.

I've got 2k Sierra Match King 77gr (non coated) for my MK262 loading, but those wait until I test my ladder loads. Been almost a year now, and still sitting on the 12 lots of 10 rounds. Time, access to a 200y range where I can set up and check my target at will, weather conditions... One of these days I'll get it done.

 

[Flying_gage]

In my experience with the . 308, H-4895 and WW-748 are excellent performers. 'Course, 40 years ago, IMR-4064 was , for a long time, a go-to powder choice.
The older lots of WW-748 were very temperamental, with excellent groups were fired with fresh reloads. If ya let the a batch of ammo sit for a few months, the groups opened up quite a bit. I have no idea why!
H-4895 seems to really work well when your pressures are maintained below 50,000 PSI. This powder was originally designed for the . 30 M-1 (172 gr. ) and M-2 (150 Gr) service loads. (N. O. P. 47,000 PSI)
These were used in the 1903 Springfield/1917 Enfield and the US M-1 Garand rifles.
While the original lots of H-4895 are long gone, the new stuff has similar characteristics. It is erratic when used in high pressure loads.
I am just learning the preferences of Varget, and have yet to try my stash of MR 2000 and CFE-223.
Presently tweaking my . 308 (Ruby :-laf ) with Nosler ballistic tips for a possible shot at a Cow Elk, next month, if all goes well?
It does like 44 Gr. of H-4895 with Moly Coated Berger 155 Gr. and RE-15 with the Moly Coated 175 Gr. Sierra MK!

OH!
AND Primers!
Try CCI BR-2 primers for the H-4895.
Fed 210M for the Varget and RE-15. Some powders have primer preferences!
When I was using the WW-748, I was using WW large rifle primers. I have no up-to-date WW-748 experience.

Hope you get your 5R fine tuned!

GregH

GH I appreciate the insight! I will get her tuned in and then of course, I will have to change her... A man's tale I fear; we just cannot leave well enough alone!

 

[Flying_gage]

Yes, reaming primer pockets is a PITA. I came up with this.

View attachment 87089

View attachment 87090

I'll save the long story. Here is a link to my 5. 56 reloading process from the Loadmaster forum.

The bullets I prefer are the Hornady 55gr FMJBT w/Cannalure for general use and training. When I hit the man cave for a day or weekend to do up some ammo, I'll load up around 1k - 2k.

I've got 2k Sierra Match King 77gr (non coated) for my MK262 loading, but those wait until I test my ladder loads. Been almost a year now, and still sitting on the 12 lots of 10 rounds. Time, access to a 200y range where I can set up and check my target at will, weather conditions... One of these days I'll get it done.

Sticks are you in Colorado also? I noticed your tag about the "future California due to transplants". When I left there it was already being overrun. Then again you might be from Texas as that is the new Colorado.

A man after my own heart, if I am interpreting the pics correctly: ad hoc solutions instead of commercially available ones. I hate buying something if I can make it myself. This can create some interesting solutions at times, often resulting in my co-workers calling me a hillbilly or something along those lines, (a distinction I will proudly take anytime). How does that set-up work for you? Do you believe that you achieve qualitative results due the efforts on the pockets? I believe those efforts are in the far margins, when all the easy gains i have been achieved.

I will admit being envious of your apparent time allotments! I worked through 180 rounds for my handguns the other day and felt I had a weeks vacation! Little ones take most of the time these days!

 

[Sticks]

Sticks are you in Colorado also? I noticed your tag about the "future California due to transplants". When I left there it was already being overrun. Then again you might be from Texas as that is the new Colorado.

A man after my own heart, if I am interpreting the pics correctly: ad hoc solutions instead of commercially available ones. I hate buying something if I can make it myself. This can create some interesting solutions at times, often resulting in my co-workers calling me a hillbilly or something along those lines, (a distinction I will proudly take anytime). How does that set-up work for you? Do you believe that you achieve qualitative results due the efforts on the pockets? I believe those efforts are in the far margins, when all the easy gains i have been achieved.

I will admit being envious of your apparent time allotments! I worked through 180 rounds for my handguns the other day and felt I had a weeks vacation! Little ones take most of the time these days!

Yup, Colorado, born and raised.

I've actually spent close to $150 trying to get something that would do the primer pocket reaming other than by hand, one of which was an RCBS 5 station case prep center, that now is nothing more than an expensive case marker (I put a black band on the case near the head to ID my cases from others - I know those PPs are reamed). That is when I looked over at my drill press and smacked my forehead and built the jig.

It's locked in, and the reamer is 100% square to the case. Ream is done by feel and visual inspection prior to eject (powder burn in bottom of pocket). I have had virtually no problems with primer seating or depth, other than the ones that fall out of my hand into the reamed pile and I can't find them after a few minuets of careful pulling and checking. Not visually checking the 500+ sitting in the bucket to find the jumper. Just start a new lot.

Last winter during my winter layoff (what management called "Paid Vacation") I sat down and sorted, cleaned, and sized 12k cases, reamed 6k cases, and loaded them. About 1 week from dirty once fired range brass to loaded stripper clips in 6-7 hour sessions (had 5 lots that I had to measure and weigh each and every single one).

I wish I had more time and space to do this. Winter is my stock up for the next year time for ammo. I love the progressive press. I don't have the patience to singe stage load bulk ammo, especially if I know I am going to burn 150 handgun or 300+ rifle in one day (training classes is closer to 1100 in one weekend). Top it off, at the rounds per minute I am turning out, I still get match grade ammo consistency. If I was loading for a bolt gun, then I suspect that I would single stage it, and have to buy a beam scale to get 99. 9% match instead of the 97% I get now.

 

[Flying_gage]

Impressive! At some point I will move to a progressive. I wanted to cut my teeth on the single throw set up; getting a feel for the process, tolerances and end product. So far I have been doing it correctly as nothing has gone boom the wrong way. I think that I will always enjoy the single stage though especially for loading up rifle stuff. The necessity to focus and achieve close tolerances speaks to a part of me that has shriveled since I have transitioned from a higher speed life style to being a butt and nose wiper, chef, rule maker and arbiter for three young babies

Do you shoot competitively? That is a fair amount of ammo you are sending somewhere!

I was born at Swede's in Englewood and reared in Evergreen. It was a strange place to be raised in the twilight of the 60's. My neighbor was a ER physician who shot guns off his porch but did LOT's of drugs. There were other conflicted personalities up there, but he was one of the more interesting. Obviously the liberals won the day up there! Miss the weather out there but I don't miss the liberal politics and the weirdo's that are drawn like moths to a candle to the Denver area.

 

[Sticks]

I used to shoot IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) matches once a month - Heck I'm still an SO for them - but work had developed a habit of rearing it's ugly head on my match days, and the property that I used to go shoot on with my buddy got seized by the city of Castle Rock - Immanent Domain - for a bike path right up the middle of it. At that point I was burning somewhere close to 500 rounds a month in pistol, so I started reloading.

I didn't get into the evil black rifles until 2011(?) and immediately took some training classes, 2 days, 1000+ rounds. Pushed me real fast into rifle reloading.

I did not live in the city until '93. Had some nasty allergy that the doctors could not figure out. Supposedly when I was 3 my parents moved to Breckenridge and my health issues went away - so they attributed it to the pollution in Denver. Evidently ending up in the hospital every few months with pneumonia was a problem. Even after that, If I came to visit the grandparents for a while, by the third day I was having flu like symptoms, and by the 5th it was ER time. So we stayed rural from then on.

The Republic Of Boulder is where all the hard core liberals are now. Denver and the state is just currently ruled by them. Come on recalls.

The Metro area stretches to Golden on the west, Broomfield & Brighton on the north - almost to Boulder, 5 miles shy of Watkins on the east, and 5 miles shy of Castle Rock on the south. Not much of the open land with farms and ranches in between anymore.