Replacement Clutch Source

[HBarlow]

I'm sharing this information in case other members are approaching clutch replacement time and are in the information gathering mode.



The clutch engagement point in my Ram has become very close to the top of the clutch pedal travel in recent months and the clutch shudders when starting on a grade while loaded. The symptoms indicate a worn disc and warped pressure plate. The odometer shows 90k+. About 75-80K of those miles are towing miles.



I've been talking to friends and fellow TDR members for several months, gathering information. I decided to replace the clutch assembly before it fails thinking it is cheaper to give up a few thousand miles of use to avoid a possible clutch failure with travel trailer in tow far from home.



I obtained prices from several sources including South Bend Clutch and my local NAPA store. At the Lone Star TDR rally in Kerrville last month I talked with a couple of fellow TDR members. A TDR friend told me that our trucks were factory equipped with LuK clutches as the supplier to Dodge.



I don't drag race or pull a sled. My travel trailer weighs 8500# or less. My normal gross combined weight is around 16,500#, well under the factory GCWR. After considering the options and my needs I decided on a stock replacement clutch, primarily based on price. I couldn't see a good reason to pay two or three times more money for an upgraded clutch for my application.



There are many sources available including several TDR advertisers. I decided to order a clutch from NAPA for convenience but a couple days ago I keyed the words "clutch assembly" into my computer's search engine and found "Dial-A-Clutch", a company in Boca Raton, FL (http://www.dialaclutch.com). Their website offers replacement clutches for most cars and trucks including our Dodge Rams. The website states that LuK is the OEM supplier to Dodge. I called on their toll free number and spoke to a phone sales rep. He was friendly and helpful and convincingly confirmed that claim. Their price for a complete new clutch assembly including pressure plate, disc, clutch release bearing, pilot shaft bushing, and alignment tool is $311. 40. That price was considerably lower than other sources I've found so I ordered the clutch assembly. It should be delivered next week.



If the clutch proves to be OEM quality and performs as well as the original it could be a bargain. If not it could be an expensive lesson. In either case I'll post an update after it is installed and let others know.



If anyone has previous experience with a LuK branded clutch or Dial-A-Clutch they'd like to share before I have the clutch assembly installed please let me know.



Harvey

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Harvey,



I used to think the same way you do



BOY was I sorry!!!!!!



Sooner or later, you'll be calling Peter at South Bend Clutch.

You'll be paying him AND be out the price of the stock clutch, too.



Happened to me, twice.



Brian

 

[HBarlow]

ThrottleJockey:



You may be right. If you are, as I said, it will be an expensive lesson.



However, I note on your profile that your interests are listed as "diesel sled pulling. " That might explain why you prefer an upgraded clutch.



The sled I pull weighs about 8,500 pounds but it has four radial tires under it.



Harvey

 

[ThrottleJockey]

It should say " I like to WATCH diesel sled pulling"



I can't afford to sled pull. A rich man's sport



My clutch failures were with an empty truck, both times.



Good luck

 

[HBarlow]

ThrottleJockey:



Yeah, I would imagine the kind of equipment required for sled pulling and the stresses placed on it could get mighty expensive.



Thanks for the good luck wishes. If I'm crying on this site in a few months about my replacement clutch not holding on the grades you can post an "I told you so. "



I'd always prefer to buy the best but my budget won't allow it. Sometimes when I try to do something on the cheap I regret it but sometimes I stumble into a bargain. Time will tell.



Harvey

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Driving style has a lot to do with how long a clutch lasts.

LuK has been the OEM supplier for our Rams since the 1994 model. They produce a clutch that meets Dodge specs for a better price than the Sachs Dodge used from 1989-93.

Dial-a-Clutch advertises on a Ford site heavily. I went to their website. They now have an interesting Cerametallic Luk clutch for the 6 speed Rams. It costs about $550 from them. LuK also offers a flywheel made of the same ductile iron as Cummins uses, they told me at SEMA, that is like the HO flywheel, with the extra iron to surround the bolt holes for the 13" clutch pattern. They said the Cerametallic clutch should be good for about 1000 ft lb. I saw the clutch at SEMA, and plan to try one in my '04.

 

[Newf Limo]

Southbend

I will be going to them when it is time. I don't pull a trailer, but have been known to pull apple tree stumps out Hey, it is easier than digging!

 

[lkuykendall]

Has anybody driven a pickup with the LuK Cerametallic clutch? I need a clutch for my 01' 6 spd that will handle pulling heavy loads. I slipped mine this weekend pulling a big load and LOTS of wind up a hill. My pickup is only used for pulling a load or running down the hwy empty, no drag racing, sled pulling etc...



Thanks



Len

 

[C. Harlan]

No Sled pulling here, no drag racing either... strict trailer pulling, and I will tell you. . quit wasting time and money, and just Call Peter at Southbend. . At least he can stand behind his products, as all these other people refuse to do. Keep this in mind. It may be a little more, but Customer Service is top notch!



-Chris-

 

[DEP5]

After reading these posts I decide to go visit South Bend Clutch in Mishawaka, Indiana for a tour so I could decide which clutch to put in my 2001 QC 3500 4x4, 6 spd. HO Cummins . . . I burned the clutch at 12k miles rocking it out of snow and nursed it along until it now has 76k miles and will no longer pull a trailer. Contrast this with the 156k I put on my 1992 CC 3500 2x4 5spd Cummins at which point the trans failed; the clutch was still good and was not replaced



The bad LUK clutch may have meet 2001 Dodge specs for a cheaper price than the Sachs Dodge used from 1989-93 but unhappy 6 speed consumers are paying the price for this decision; money that could have been spent to trade up on a new truck will be spent instead to correct the bad LUK inherited because someone decided to source the cheapest supplier.



Peter took me on a grand tour of his shop which is very easy to find in the Mishawaka/South Bend/Elkhart area; this area just happens to be the RV capital of the world. According to local lore, Princess Mishawaka was a daughter of Chief Elkhart, and gave her name to the city of Mishawaka, IN. (A bronze plaque cast in her memory can be seen near her grave in the city park).



One of the first things he showed me was a sample of the OEM lining that was in my truck. Looked like fiberglas, very brittle and it broke easily. We looked at the clutch options, 1) 'CON O'-performance organic, 2) 'CON OFE' combination of a full feramic lining one side and an organic lining opposite, and 3) 'CON FE' which is a full feramic lining. I think the pressure plate is a LUK with modifications.



Everything in the shop is well organized and it is truly amazing what they accomplish with ten dedicated employees. I noticed the #18 Blanchard grinder with digital readouts right away but I was really surprised to see another very old Blanchard, dating from 1927. It is serial number 25, the 25th one ever built, it came from a Chrysler plant closing and Blanchard would love to buy it back - but 'no thanks'. Peter is so attached to it that he just had the gearbox rebuilt by the factory; it just won't quit. Another interesting item is the rubber lined Geoff airless steel shot machine which propels steel shot at high velocity to mechanically clean dirty and rust iron parts-similar to a Wheelabrator. Many of the special clutch rebuilding fixtures in the shop were designed, engineered and built by Peter's Dad and it is very evident that heritage and pride of purpose plays a big role in the production of their products.



One new piece of equipment is dedicated to measuring force loadings on the pressure plates. The "real time" digital readouts eliminate the old time-intensive methods of using feeler and height gages. (Clutch kits can actually be certified with a performance certificate, eliminating a lot of finger pointing and 'blame games' if something goes wrong). One person was doing a computer analysis of frictional losses under load.



When my clutch parts were being pulled off the shelf Peter found that he just shipped his last batch of MU 1947 'CON 0' so he graciously supplied me with the 'OFE' version and they were moved to the shipping bench. A box was lined with protective plastic wrapping and a foam sealant was applied with a squirt gun to the center of the box on the wrapping which then was folded over like a large handkerchief. The clutch cover and disc were placed into the box, on the liner, and as we watched . . the foam rose to nest the parts. Hey, they could have tossed the parts over the counter but they made that extra effort to show that they care.



I chose to pay a refundable core charge on a re-machined flywheel because I was still driving the truck.



When I finished the financial transaction I asked, "where are my parts?". . . They were already in the Dodge . . talk about service.



Peter is a guy that will go the extra mile to make sure you are getting a product that will exceed your expectations and stand behind it. Try that with people that sell based only on initial price.



A major benefit of these boards and forums is to be able to learn from the mistakes of others. I always try to consider future expansion and incorporate extra capacity in my purchasing decisions because if the acquisition fails or does not meet my needs then all the money spent is lost because the resale value of the item will basically be Zero and more cash will have to be generated to do what should have been done from the onset.



"Cheap" is chicken talk and its rightful place will be found - broken down along the road, watered with tiny tears.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

LuK has to satisfy a lot of preferences of buyers who are not diesel enthusiasts, let alone b. o. m. b. ers. The stock clutch in the '04 is very smooth and holds a "reasonable" amount of power. LuK has spent a good bit of time on their new cerametallic clutch, but they have not been able to get the kind of accurate testing with high horsepower Rams, especially towing heavy trailers, that is needed to validate its effectiveness and determine its limits.



South Bend does not slam LuK, in fact some of their best clutches use LuK pressure plates [worked over a bit, to be sure ] and disk hubs. Careful attention to geometry for the best clamp load (pressure) curve over the life of the clutch, and choice of the most appropriate friction materials set SB clutches aside from the pack of clutch resellers and rebuilders. Their customer service is legendary here on the TDR.



In the next few months I plan to have some testing completed on the new LuK cerametallic. I have heard that earlier prototypes had the typical teething pains of slippage etc. but this one may be good, resolve the holding and drivability issues common to new clutch designs, and fill a niche for Rammers who need more clutch than stock. Believe it or not, Peter is also interested in it because he wants us to get the best values for our applications, but he is rightfully cautious pending results of testing.



Meanwhile, the more expensive SB Con FE has established a loyal following because of its holding power, durability, and heat resistance in a clutch that has smooth, stock-like engagement. I was more than impressed by the con FE performance at MM'02 where "Sparky" Yardley abused it unmercifully while pulling the sled, yet it still held! Whereas brass alloys soften (melt) around 1500-1900 deg. F, iron is good to 2500 deg.



Our options in clutches today are vastly improved over what was available when my '97 was new. I still like the redesigned Sachs with brass/ceramic pucks and high clamp load in my '97. I recently removed it to find the wear was quite modest after three years. However, for my 2004 I want a clutch more in line with the personality of the new truck--lighter pedal pressure, smooth engagement, yet good holding power. I have driven a Ram with the Con-Fe and it has those features. Testing continues! Oo.

 

[Elite1]

Joseph, I slipped my stock clutch for the first time yesterday, it wouldn't hold 3rd gear when I jumped on the throttle. I would like to know more about Luk cerametalic clutch if you have tested it yet. I may end up with the SB Con FE, but would like to weigh all my options.

 

[gsdog1]

Getting ready to upgrade my clutch as well, and to muddy the waters here would like to throw another two vendors into the mix - Haisley and Mitchell. Comments and comparisons please to the other vendors??



Matt

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

See my post under the Con FE question thread in this forum. If you want a product of known, high quality, smooth, and with high holding power for your 2004, it would be hard to make a mistake with the con fe. The new LuK may prove out, but remains a question today for the high hp guys who may also tow, etc. I'll let you know after I have some feedback to give you. The Haisley and Mitchell stuff as far as I know is mostly sled pulling stuff, and might have more driveability compromises. I have no direct experience with their clutches.

 

[Rob Thomas]

Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly

Mitchell stuff as far as I know is mostly sled pulling stuff, and might have more driveability compromises.

None at all.



This clutch drives, tows, backs, and sled-pulls, without issue, and will hold everything one could throw at it. If I didn't sled-pull, and knowing what I know now, I'd still have this clutch.





Rob

 

[csevers]

If you haven't driven a truck with a Mitchell or Haisley clutch in it, try finding one!! I had an OFE from the "Clutch King" and the Mitchell is smoother in alot of cases and shifts just as nice as with the OFE. In MY case the only difference between the OFE and the Mitchell is the heavyer pedal and the rattle witch I like both and you can add power without having to worry about the clutch again. A clutch of this design doesn't drive like a stock clutch but the truck is not stock, what more can ya ask?



Find a truck with a dual disc clutch and drive it see for your self.



Craig

 

[HBarlow]

When I posted a month ago about purchasing a LuK standard replacement clutch for my RAM I stated that I would post the results later so readers could decide for themselves if my choice was a mistake.



Dial-A-Clutch shipped the clutch as promised. I hooked up and traveled to Boulder City, NV to have the Luk replacement clutch assembly installed by Bill Slade, a friend of Joe Donnelly. Bill allowed me to remain under the truck watching him work and getting in his way. The job took about five hours and included stone turning the flywheel. While we waited for the flywheel to return from the machine shop Bill installed a Larry B's solenoid and plunger upgrade in my starter and replaced the engine oil pressure sender on the block (another story). Bill did a careful and quality job. I won't post the amount he charged me for the job but it was a bargain. If you are interested you can PM me. The following morning, with no break-in miles, I hooked up the old Avion and returned home to Texas.



Several days after returning home my wife took vacation time and we journeyed to California.



The new LuK clutch assembly has about 5,000 trouble-free towing miles on it now. I'm completely satisfied with the LuK clutch and recommend it to anyone towing within factory rated gross combined weights. Please note: I'm not criticising any other suppliers or member's choices, I'm simply stating that for my needs, the LuK clutch works fine.



Interestingly the factory clutch that was removed had "LuK" stamped on the pressure plate, just like the replacement that went in. At 93,000 miles the original clutch didn't show much wear but hot spots on the flywheel and pressure plate were probably causing start-up shudder. The removed clutch release bearing was rough when spun by hand and the pilot bushing had lost some of its grease.



My total cost for parts and labor was less than the price of a MOPAR replacement clutch from a local dealer, not counting labor to install.



Harvey