2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Replacement HD radiator

[Brianpump]

Some time ago there was discussion about heavy duty replacement radiators. I don't recal that anyone had found one. Or am I wrong?

Brian

 

[wicked6]

Some time ago there was discussion about heavy duty replacement radiators. I don't recal that anyone had found one. Or am I wrong?

Brian

Was thumbing through the latest Jeg's catalog & they list a Griffin aluminum radiator for the 2nd gen Cummins application. . Wasn't cheap - $600. . ??? I forget. . Anyway - nice option if you need th extra cooling...

 

[mechanic]

Some time ago there was discussion about heavy duty replacement radiators. I don't recal that anyone had found one. Or am I wrong?

Brian

There are after market replacement radiators for 94> trucks that are made of aluminum. They are the same size and thickness as the OE but because they are aluminum they will out cool the OE units. I don't when the OE became aluminum but the ones I have seen are all brass & copper + plastic. If yours is a b&b+p then the replacement would be considerably better.

 

[pfmoale]

Hello David,

Saw your post on heavy duty radiators. My ride is an 01 2500 4X4 L. B. ext. cab, auto trans with "Banks" Power Pack unit installed (with additional engine and auto trans temp gauges).

Pulled Wolf Creek Pass in Colorado (ele 10,875 ft), Water temp really started to climb, off went A/C unit,but had to drop down into 2nd, and no faster than 25/30 MPH. This is pulling a tow behind travel trailer, weight about 7,000 lbs.

Why was a Ford diesel pulling a 5th wheel TT passing me up the hill, it's suppose to be the other way around !!! Watched my gauges VERY carefully, and even thought engine and turbo would give it to me if I asked, I didn't "push" it.

Have enquired to Summit racing asking what would fit without cutting, and pricing.

Your thoughts or ideas.

Thanks very much,

Peter

 

[RHARVEY]

Once we start putting power to our trucks(fuel) then we have to address the air issue with a change either the turbo exhuast housing of even a complete turbo. Then we say to ourselves... selves... my exhuast temps are down. . now I can use all the hp that I have. Sometimes yes and sometimes no because you are using that extra hp the next item on the food chain is the cooling system to handle it.

You can pull a 6% grade at 55 mph with 40lbs of boost from your twin turbos and never see over 1050*. . but now watch your cooling temps! The needle is going to crawl and crawl up to a point that you will need to back off on the go pedal.

Some kind of after market radiator need to be used... Something the size of a Peterbilt radiator maybe????



With the aluminum radiators... how much more do they cool over the stock units. .



Rick

 

[BDR]

When I had my XJ lifted w/ big tires it would over heat on the trails. I saw an article about radiators from a website that work very well. So I ordered one and installed it, it cooled 100 times better than stock. Was well worth the swap. They have OEM and aftermarket radiaotrs.



www.radiator.com

 

[mechanic]

Hello David,

Saw your post on heavy duty radiators. My ride is an 01 2500 4X4 L. B. ext. cab, auto trans with "Banks" Power Pack unit installed (with additional engine and auto trans temp gauges).

Pulled Wolf Creek Pass in Colorado (ele 10,875 ft), Water temp really started to climb, off went A/C unit,but had to drop down into 2nd, and no faster than 25/30 MPH. This is pulling a tow behind travel trailer, weight about 7,000 lbs.

Why was a Ford diesel pulling a 5th wheel TT passing me up the hill, it's suppose to be the other way around !!! Watched my gauges VERY carefully, and even thought engine and turbo would give it to me if I asked, I didn't "push" it.

Have enquired to Summit racing asking what would fit without cutting, and pricing.

Your thoughts or ideas.

Thanks very much,

Peter

Hi Peter,

I am not sure, but I think that your truck has the aluminum core as OE. If it does, it would be the same as the one I was referring to. But, if it is the B&C core, then the stock replacement aluminum core would be a considerable improvement.

I always check the fan clutch and check to see if the core is restricted to air flow. I have seen dozens of radiators that were 70 to 90% blocked by junk from the air. I would suggest removing the radiator and looking at it to see if you can see through the fins. Then have it cleaned or do as I do and soak it down with SUPER CLEAN or a generic of the stuf, and wash it out with a car wash spray held straight into the fins. Do this on both sides untill the water runs clear.

The fan clutch should sound like it is going to eat the radiator if it is working correctly and the air temp going over the clutch is hot. Do you have a lift kit in yours? I have not many of them on trucks in this area, but I did see one on a Chevrolet 2 weeks that when they lifted the body, it caused the fan schroud to have about a 5" open area between the wpper and lower halves. If one had an issue with cooling, that would cause problems. I don't know how the kits handle the way the radiator is offset within the fan schroud. Good luck.

 

[CumminsPower98]

I have always understood that copper is better at heat transfer, thus you pay more for high performace copper computer CPU heat sinks. I know the aluminum is stronger but does it really cool better if it's the same size or are the aftermarket aluminum ones bigger? I really need a better radiator. My OE one cracked and I replaced it with an aftermarket 4 row copper/brass/plastic unit and now it's starting to leak a tiny bit around a couple of the cores and it's not even old. I am towing full time now and I can get hot real easy in the mountain passes or when pushing a big wind even when cold out so I would really like to find something that cools better and that I can depend on. Yes I'm pushing more fuel so I know I can do only so good but if I could find something that was strong, long lasting and cooled at least some better then OE I would be happy. The Griffin radiators only go up to '97 but my '98 takes the same one, wonder why that is??



Interesting reading on copper/brass I found while searching for radiators. http://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/radiators/life_cycle.html

 

[Reb.B]

Hey Rick! I told you so, ... its not about EGT's when pulling, its about boost. Here are some temperature and radiator hints. I'll start with towing temps. It can be 20 degrees outside, but if you are making 30-40 psi boost you are putting 300-400 degrees in front of your radiator and its like driving in Death Valley on a 300 degree day. The intercooler radiates all the hot all right in front of your radiator. Okay, now that we have the boost verses radiator temps figured out and that we know that no matter how big a radiator is it will still heat up with 200-400 degree air blowing in front of it. Next is radiator design and material. Copper will always disapate heat faster than aluminum! FACT! Now then, ... the OEM radiators that are built, the copper is better and will cool better. The best OEM radiator was built by GO-DAN from China, but have been bought out be PROLINE. They are thicker and they are copper and have a lifetime warrenty. Now you ask, why does Griffin say their radiators are better than Copper, ... BECAUSE they ARE. You can build a aluminum better than a copper if it is done right, (ie. larger tubes, triple the size) and it won't weigh too much and fall apart. So an aftermarket well built aluminum will cool better than copper, but OEM vs OEM, copper is much better.

 

[rubberneck]

On jegs site, it lists them for the 94-97, which i believe would still fit a newer truck. correct me if i am wrong. However, it only lists models with a trans cooler built in. Anybody know if they make them without trans coolers for us 6 speed guys. I have no problem dropping the change to buy one of these, but really would like to know if we are going to gain anything. im sceptical (sp?) I understand the durability issue, but if it doesn't cool better, im not sure it is worth it to me. Exactly as stated above, i think we are in trouble with all that nice pre-heated air flowing over the radiator. Only way i see to really improve cooling, is to mount an auxilary radiator in the bed with an electric fan on it, and who wants that.

 

[TRCM]

as to if ti works better, I went from a b/c one to an aftermarket aluminum one in my gasser 4x4. I had a hard time keeping it below 200 deg with a 19" belt driven fan (no clutch), shroud, and everything @ 70 mph.



I put in an aluminum that is only 2" wider, and it now stays at 185 (tstat setting at any speed above 20 mph. I have a set of electric fans on it now from a JY, and they are only needed when sitting still, and then they are only used inslow speed. I've used high speed, but have never HAD to.

 

[mechanic]

Just my two cents worth, even though these are rather old posts. I have been in the professional service end of the business for 34+ years, and I can promise you that quality for quality an aluminum will out cool a copper/brass unit. GM went to them years ago, and do a better cooling job with a smaller radiator. One reason may be that a brass and copper unit has brass tubes and copper fins soldered to them with lead based solder, or in some I have seen, were held in place by a tight fit with no solder. Where as with an aluminum unit, it has the fins and tubes made of aluminum and assembled with aluminum solder, or is welded, so the heat transfer is not slowed by a seam with lead solder or a friction fit.

While there are cases where someone has changed to one type or the other and had better performance with the brass and copper unit, this is almost always a case of lesser quality or a wrong application or in some cases a manufacturing problem.

Plus if, as some have implied, brass and copper really is better, why would the industry switch to the aluminum units? And how could they cool the same or greater power output with much smaller radiators? And some of you guys are to young to remember the 40's and 50's and even the 60's and 70' when we had fits tring to get enough cooling on those cars and trucks. As a dealership mechanic at that time, I have seen my share of those type problems.

Just my experience, and the solution I have found to take care of the problem.

 

[Reb.B]

mechanic, . . you need to take a metalergy class. Copper dipences heat faster tha aluminum, FACT. Drive 100 12v dodges and 100 24v trucks with the same egt's and punch the throttle and the dodge will float around 160 and max at 185 and the 24v will hit 190 in a heart beat and keep on rising. You CAN built an aluminum radiator in a automotive application better than a copper rad. , but OEM vs. OEM the copper is better. Aluminum is cheaper and lighter, ... just what the big three like!

 

[Pmaloney]

Not trying to start a war here, but in my reading on radiators the reason they have gone to the aluminum is that it is stronger. They say that they can outperform the copper/brass by going with 1 1/4 - 1 1/2" tubes in an aluminum and keep it only a two row (core) . To go with the equivalent surface area in a copper/brass you need a 4 row. Then the downfall to the 4 row is that you wind up taking the heat from all of the rows and transfering it to the rows behind the fronts. Not sure if this is true or not but I have been researching this issue alot as I am having issues with heat while pulling the 5er through the mountains. I have added a second radiator under the bed (ford powerstroke unit) which has helped out a lot, but it doesnt get good enough flow I am thinking.

I believe the ultimate for dissipation would be a two core

1 1/2" copper/brass radiator but from what I have read they are not strong enough with that size of core that is why they use aluminum so you don't burst a core.

Lets figure this out, there are enough of us that pull with our modified trucks, after all that is why I want more power, but all the power is useless if you can't use it :{

 

[mechanic]

Reb. B

You are 1 year older then my oldest son, and while there is nothing wrong with that, (I love young people) a little respect on your part would go a long way toward responsable discussion. You are typical of the ones I was talking about. There are so many holes in your comparison to 12 and 24 valve engines that I choose not to enter that debate. I never intended said that aluminum has a better heat transfer rate then copper, because I don't know. I said the for what ever reason as a general rule, they out perform copper/brass/lead units in actual function. The reason may well be because of the construction and the reasons mentioned on your and other's posts. I don't feel totally satisfied with the answers but they are resonable. Just an additional note. One of the most successful radiator shops in this area, the owner of which I came to know and use because of his committment to quality and knowing his business has found what I wrote in the post to be his experience also.

There is nothing wrong with being young (wish I could roll back a few years) and inexperienced, but being less the respectful is not acceptable. When you have 50+ years of turning wrenches and several of those as a member of a team of the top trouble shooters in the state, then 4 years in a major service center then 26+ in your own shop that pulls customers from as far as 100 miles away, then you can put us old timers in our place. But, by then you should have learned better.

There should be an engineer out there who can put us all in our place! I would like to hear for you if you are there.

 

[Reb.B]

Pmaloney, ... . you are correct. Thats why the aluminum radiator will out do a copper rad. if its is built right, but oem won't take the time or money to do them right. As for Mechanic i was not disrespectfull, i think you need to reread my previous post. I really think you need to take a metalergy class, i think every mechanic should. All engineers most take this class. It really opens doors on why some things work and why others don't work. I don't care how old you are or how old your son is. This is the internet and age plays no part here. I respect anybody ,(young or old).

 

[mechanic]

Good luck REB. B and carry on. If age plays no roll here then I will neither does education or or experience. Because I was talking from those areas, not just age. But I see age as wisdom because of experience in life and from education through what ever source. As I have worked with some "old timers" I have found that while they may not have all the theory totally correct, I have not often seen them wrong in their procedure to correct a problem. And by listening to them, I learned much.



Really this whole issue about radiators and copper vs aluminum has gotten a lot bigger then needed. I would not have come back at you that way if you had been a little bit lower keyed. If you did not intend disrespect, then you may want to consider taking a commuications class, because neither of your posts show that you did not intend disrespect. I say that not to be disrespectful to you, but with the very real knowledge that sometimes a person sounds like they are arrogant or angry and really arn't, I have had to work on that myself.



Well enough said and vented on this issue. Hope all who are having heating problems can cool them with more success then I am having cooling this topic. I am going to go to work and let this one cool.

 

[scotmartin]

This thread has gone off track. The thread starter simply wanted to know IF there were replacement radiators available.



Scot