RV Unfreindly

[CLAYTON]

RV Unfriendly

RV Unfriendly Nova Scotia:

Description of the ban on RV Overnight Parking in the Province



By

Andrew Cornwall

Copyright June 2005





In Nova Scotia it is illegal for a private property owner who does not have a campground license to provide an RVing member of the traveling public a place to stay overnight. The policy and intent of the government of Nova Scotia is succinctly stated in correspondence, in the fall of 2004, from Rodney MacDonald, Minister of Tourism, Heritage and Culture:







"Our government and the campground industry consider camping in locations such as Walmart (sic) parking lots illegal. The Tourist Accommodations Act and Regulations requires all land owners who plan to offer this type of "camping" to have a license to do so. " [1][2]



"... we must acknowledge the need for our visitors to be located in a clean and safe environment. Our licensed campground operators, as small business owners, have invested time and resources into providing a clean, safe and enjoyable experience for those who travel in our province. "

The requirement of obtaining a campground license is not merely perfunctory, entailing payment of an annual fee and meeting regulatory standards for campsite size, provision of toilet facilities, etc.





Despite the Minister's implications, there is no evidence that camping in other than a licensed campground is either unclean or dangerous for RVers visiting Nova Scotia. The issue is entirely the threat of competition to the private campground industry.





There are no exceptions to the ban on camping except in a campground. It applies even in instances such as: all the campgrounds in an area are full or are closed for the season, driving is dangerous, the road is impassible, or there is an emergency or vehicle breakdown. Further, staying overnight in a truck stop is not allowed, neither is staying overnight at an RV repair center; nor even staying overnight in a hospital parking lot while a family member is undergoing critical treatment. For RVers the law is, at the least, inconvenient, and possibly dangerous and cruel.





A land owner, who does not have a campground license, who allows a member of the traveling public to stay overnight in an RV is potentially subject to a $500 fine. This ban has been in effect for many years. It is enforced by Nova Scotia Department of Tourism, Culture and Heritage accommodation inspectors who respond to complaints of private campground owners when violations are sighted. To date there have been no fines levied nor prosecutions, with accommodations inspectors using their powers of persuasion and the threat of the penalties to curtail all forms of 'indiscriminate camping'. There is on-going pressure, however, from private campground owners, represented by the Campground Owners Association of Nova Scotia (COANS) and the Tourist Industry Association of Nova Scotia (TIANS), for more intensive enforcement by involving the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) and local police. The Department sends letters annually to parking lot operators and municipal officials advising them of the ban. Even in the absence of the most aggressive forms of enforcement, nonetheless, parking lot operators and other private land owners are wary that if they allow an RVer to stay overnight they are breaking the law.







[1] Camping is also permitted, in season, in campgrounds operated by the Provincial and Federal governments, which are not licensed. Campers are charged a fee to stay in these campgrounds.

[2] Staying overnight in a parking lot is legal in an automobile, truck, or any vehicle not designed "... as temporary living quarters for recreational, camping or travel use ... " .

Why would they allow staying overnight in a parking lot in a car or truck or "any vehicle not designed"? That strikes me as a little odd. I hope more places don't enforce this? I can see if people are abusing the privilege and stayed for extended periods of time at a place thats not designated "Camping" or what not... but for the occasional family that pulls over cause they got a late start or feel to tired to go on that night it doesn't seem right. Any thoughts? At least here in the United States if you pulled over in the back of a Wal Mart you would think that if Wal mart allowed it (being private property) how could they enforce that? Just curious

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"but for the occasional family that pulls over cause they got a late start or feel to tired to go on that night it doesn't seem right. "



AH, but you see, you have inadvertantly touched on the basic issue!



ALL "RV campers" seem to feel that THEIR "needs" and situations are "special" - thus THEY should be exempted from the limitations you have posted.



And it is exactly THEIR unwillingness to make better travel plans - plus the eyesores their "camping" often creates on business parking lots - that causes these regulations!



The ability for the FEW travelers with *true* emergencies who MIGHT benefit from current merchant generosity, will undoubtedly eventually lose that privilege due to the abuse of many of those who essentially do ALL their RV overnighting on those parking lots, NOT due to actual NEED, but due to unwillingness to make better travel plans, and outright cheapness.



Yeah, these "Walmart campground" threads can be depended upon to generate LOTS of heat - and long past experience dictates I comment no further - so party on without me, dudes!

 

[cyborg]

A few years ago there was a group trying to push for an ordinance like that in Mono County, Ca. The group was motel, hotel and campground operators (L&L). They wanted to make camping in an RV illegal anywhere but in a licensed campground. Luckily for the general public, sanity prevailed and it was shot down.



No freedoms are safe In search of the almighty $dollar$.

 

[nps]

A 24 hour time limit would be a reasonable compromise.



Despite Gary's seemingly strong position on the subject, I've never seen the *many* Walmart campers. Guess I never drive by the right Walmarts.

 

[klenger]

I think that even an 8 hour time limit would be acceptable, and maybe even preferable.

 

[AMink]

In Reno, there is an ordinance that prohibits staying overnight in parking lots. Walmart says that since it's a Reno ordinance, RPD can enforce it, but Walmart won't. I imagine that the places that have RV's don't like Wallyworld cutting out of their pocketbook. While I have never stayed overnight at a Walmart or similar, I have stopped for lunch and a snooze there. I guess there's always the possibility of an "accidental grey water spill", but those happen in parks, reststops, and other places.

 

[DIESELMAN]

I agree with Ken, 8 hours is more than enough. I don't think there is anything wrong with pulling over for the night, wherever, when wherever isn't the where you are going too... ... just don't be pulling out the lawn chairs.



I've seen the Wal-Mart in Flagstaff with 15 RV's lined up, awnings out, Lawn chairs and the green grass rolled out. This is wrong.



Gary - wow, it took you almost 45 minutes to reply

 

[Jumbo Jet]

A 24 hour time limit would be a reasonable compromise.



Despite Gary's seemingly strong position on the subject, I've never seen the *many* Walmart campers. Guess I never drive by the right Walmarts.

Amarillo Texas Wal-Mart back in June. I stayed in a real RV campground that night in my Lance truck camper. Stopped by the Wal-Mart at 0800 the next morning and there were still several RV's there. A couple large motorhomes were in the process of breaking camp.

 

[cyborg]

"this land is your land, this land is my land"

"this land is your land, this land is my land"



As far as Wal-Mart, K-Mart or Any-Mart, if they give permission, it's there property to do with as they see fit. The people I know would never leave a mess, trash, or discharge. But they probably would bust out the lawn chairs and watch the world go by.



I spent many a night sleeping on the ground along/off Hwy 395 between tahoe and L. A. . Who needs or wants to get a room to nap for a couple hours. For years we camped along the owens river, always left it cleaner than we found it.



The real issue is that the campground owners (contractors) see every RV parked along the road, in a park, rest stop or ???? as revenue lost. Those people should be $paying$ for the empty space on their property. Now here's the irony: The contractors for NPS (Curry Co. ), USFS (L&L), BLM put the profits in their coffers, while we pay taxes to maintain the public lands!!! Some of these companies are owned by foreign interests. So the money you pay, does not even stay in our economy!! Global thinking, NAFTA and such. The illusion is "Look at the salaries we cut by eliminating those jobs", the reality is look at the revenue lost (increased taxes)!!



My oh my. Glad that is off my chest.

 

[GFrance]

Gary - wow, it took you almost 45 minutes to reply

Leave Gary alone. He's an Oregonian now & trying to adopt our layed back ways. See what good clean air you can breath instead of chew can do for a person.

 

[Texasrattler]

eh! No parking in Nova Scotia is bad for tourism, eh!

 

[Jim Smith]

I'm with you Gary . There needs to be some type of order prevailing if not they could be camping in your front yard.

 

[DIESELMAN]

good clean air you can breath

Thats because you can't pump yer own gas up thar!

 

[Chatham]

You can bet your sweet bippy that this tourist will not be found in any community that he knows has such an ordinance!!!



I will be more than happy to spend my touri$t dollar$ in more friendly places.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

You can bet your sweet bippy that this tourist will not be found in any community that he knows has such an ordinance!!!



I will be more than happy to spend my touri$t dollar$ in more friendly places.

DITTO.



Some of us arent as organized as ole Gary there.



Staying for extended periods of time in a parking lot, I haven't seen that yet in my travels.



To each there own.

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

There needs to be some type of order prevailing if not they could be camping in your front yard.

Since when is WalMart or any Mart YOUR front yard? Maybe some of you should actually live in your RV for a while and see what the real world of RVing is like BEFORE you voice your opinion. Sometimes staying in RV parks when passing thru some towns isn't an option. Not all parks always have openings. Not all parks accept kids or pets. Not all parks accept people under the age of 55.



So, if these MARTS aren't able to accomodate me, my girlfriend and 3 year old son, who are all under the age of 55, I WILL be staying in front if YOUR house. How would like that? Mike

 

[MMeier]

I've seen the Wal-Mart in Flagstaff with 15 RV's lined up, awnings out, Lawn chairs and the green grass rolled out. This is wrong.

15 only?? Heck, everytime I go by there I can't count all the RV's I see strewn about thier lots, granted its usually late at night when they are all in for the evening. Just like about every truck stop and rest area it seems along I-40 from Kingman Az. to OKC is overfull as evidenced by the trucks and "private" vehicles parking on off/on ramps nowadays !

 

[cyborg]

You can bet your sweet bippy that this tourist will not be found in any community that he knows has such an ordinance!!!



I will be more than happy to spend my touri$t dollar$ in more friendly places.

It's amazing how they shoot themselves in the foot. There are some communities on the 395 corridor that still double the room rates when the the chain restrictions go up. $$$ $$$ $$$

 

[DIESELMAN]

15 only?? Heck, everytime I go by there I can't count all the RV's I see strewn about thier lots, granted its usually late at night when they are all in for the evening. Just like about every truck stop and rest area it seems along I-40 from Kingman Az. to OKC is overfull as evidenced by the trucks and "private" vehicles parking on off/on ramps nowadays !

In Arizona we have closed 2 out of 3 highway rest stops along the freeways to 'Save Money', yet there is only 3 new RV parks in the entire state in the last 15 years, none new in Northern Arizona.



The 15 I'm refering to were definetly camped, not overnighting, I have no problem with overnighting when required, but put the marshmallows away, those campfires ruin the asphalt.

 

[CLAYTON]

I have only used a WalMart parking lot once and I was greatful that we were able to use it. We were there no longer then 8 hours.