RWHP for PW vs POD'S injectors

[glhs]

Just wondering if anyone has an accurate rwhp number increase one can expect with PWs vs POD'S over stock injectors.

How much more boost from PWs? From POD's?

What's the increase of EGTs w/PW'S? w/POD's?

I would call Piers but I dont want to bother them.

 

[midwestdually]

i am also interested in this

 

[Grey Wolf]

200 RWHP W / PW's



Boost was max at 17PSI, now 27PSI W/ 16cm.



I can't give an accurate EGT because I haven't pulled any heavy loads to compare with... ... . yet anyway! Just running around unloaded or lightly loaded I haven't noticed any great increase in temperature

 

[midwestdually]

what were you before the PW's??

 

[Old Smoky]

I believe that the PW's add 40rwhp, and POD's add 60rwhp. I can't remember the torque numbers. FWIW I dynoed at 203/421 (20psi) about a year ago with stock injectors. I then added PW's, 4" exhaust, and some minor pump mods and dynoed at 257/622 (30psi) last fall. Since then I have installed POD's, and done some other things. Curious to see the #'s this spring.



Can’t remember the boost and EGT increase of the PW's. I think it was about 3-4psi. I cant say accurately how much the POD's increased boost or EGT’s over the PW's. I could barely hit 1200* degrees and 34-35psi on flat ground with the PW's. With the POD's I chicken out at 1400*, and the boost gauge is past maxed out. Hope this helps.



Mike

 

[JStoll]

what are PWs & pods? would someone be so kind as to explain some of the performance language? Im figuring the pods are injector nozles? & you guys tend do run smaller turbine housings? this gives you a lil more low end but takes a lil off the top its all a trade off what are mild power improvements I can do on my 1st generation truck I know about the full load screw I have heard something about rotating the sliding pin?

also although I know its not recommended I hear people just turning the pump a lil to advance the timing? how much? I bought the VE manual from sae I am a good technician & have done a fair amount of turbo tuning with my saab & other saabs but am a newbie to the diesel scene this truck is a large service truck 11 feet of frame hanging off the back of the cab a used to be a flat bed now has a 9 foot service bed & a 27 inch gap between the bed & cab where my compressor & waste oil will live I carry allot of equipment & dont want to tweak out the thing to where its un relyable but would like to familiarize myself with the improvements possible

thank you all soo much this is a great site

JAK

new truck

http://saabpics.nailed.org:3000/gallery/jak/trucknewfender

old truck

http://saabpics.nailed.org:3000/gallery/jak/Truck03





89 D350 bone stock fresh getrag 4:10s

 

[midwestdually]

PW = power wagon injectors

POD = Prince of Darkness injectors



as far as sliding the plate forward... the 1st gens dont have that

but you can tweak the pump pretty good but get some guages... looks like you definitely got a project going on there!

 

[JStoll]

yes Ill definatly get guages & thanks for the reply

but aside from the full load screw what can be done?

where can powerwagon injs be bought & how much are they?

I read something about rotating the AFC guide pin which gets the cones deeper part deeper?

thanks again

JAK

 

[Old Smoky]

JStoll,



PW = Power Wagon, or Bosch 185 injectors. These have a 5 hole nozzle and are a good all around injector.



POD = Prince of Darkness. This is a 4 hole, large sac, Lucas nozzle that produces more power, smoke, and heat. This is also a good injector, but not quite as "clean" as the PW.



I would recommend PW's to those who want a good power increase, but not the heat and smoke that the POD's produce. The POD's are good for those who are going for higher horsepower, and can deal with the extra heat and smoke.



The smaller turbine housings allow for quicker spool-up, reduced cruising EGT's, less smoke, etc. The most common size is the 16cm2. This is good for a basically stock rig, and isn't to terribly restrictive for a higher hp rig.



The sliding pin you refer to is the AFC pin/plunger/eccentric, whatever you want to call it. Rotating this to where the guide pin can ride to the deepest point allows for more fuel. This will increase fueling from the low-end, through the high-end. Most adjust the smoke screw, and/or the AFC spring preload, to reduce low-end smoke after turning the pin. Also, a custom cut pin can be used to achieve even more top-end fueling.



Advancing the timing is a good thing to do. This will help reduce EGT's and smoke, and give you better response. Some say they notice quite a difference by separating the factory timing marks by approx. 1/8". The top of the pump is rotated toward the engine. I can’t say it was a big difference, but it was noticeable.



Looks like a great work rig.



Mike

 

[Tim1]

Easy, inexpensive,fixes

Hey buddy, the easiest and most inexpensive places to start is the air in and air out. If you have the flat pipe by the transfer case, get a mandrel bent pipe and if it is smashed flat over the rear differential fix that. Also more air in, your chioce. Also, the tweaks to the pump with the advance of the timing will help a lot. There are a lot of posts here on all subjects. Guages are a must when you touch the pump and if you want to wake the old girl up, the 16cm housing will help. Good luck. Tim

 

[DPKetchum]

When i was shopping for injectors i was told PW were about a 28hp increase and POD's were about a 60 h. p. increase. This was from several of the suppliers. No one seems to mention the marine injector that i ended up buying which i was told about a 40 hp increase and and least when i purchased were less expensive then either of the other two.

 

[Grey Wolf]

midwestdually,



The engine produced a shade under 150 RWHP, although it wasn't measured on the same Dyno... . not sure if that could have made any difference!

 

[Old Smoky]

DPKetchum,

Like I said, I was unsure of the numbers. Thanks for the clarification. I don't think that 28hp seems out of line. Do you have any more information on the marine injectors? How many holes do they have? I wonder what injectors/nozzles that other companies use that put their own name on them, and what modifications they make. There seems to be a few "unknowns. "



Mike

 

[DPKetchum]

At the time there wasn'nt any discussions about amount of holes etc. I e/mailed and called around looking for facts/answers and prices. Ended up taking to Doug at Advance Diesel Tech. (Smokin Diesel. Com?)and he said there were other options such as a injector that put out around 40 to 42 h. p. a inbetween POWS and PODS less smoke etc. The price was less then other places quoted for P. W. and no core involved. I said ship them. They came in a BullyDog Tech. box. Ended up there a marine injector. They were new. Housings said made in Brazil. He commented that they were bought in cases of 100!That he and several others(i guess Bully Dog)used lots of them. With shipping they were just a little over half the price PODS were. And no core. I just wanted to mentioned there is another affordable injector other then a 28hp POWS and 60h. p. PODS there is also a 40 h. p. unit also. They said it was a Marine injector. I had a shop in the Atlanta area quote me $700. 00 for a set of injectors also. Wasn't going that route so started shopping. Seemed all i heard was POWS or PODS. Wondered what else there was,Found those.

 

[nascar mark]

Hope this helps and clears things up.



Bosch 185's (PW's)=26rwhp and 60ftlbs.

Psi increase of approx 3 psi.



Lucas (POD's)=52rwhp and 110ftlbs.

Psi increase of 6 psi.



Egt's will vary due to condition of intercooler and turbo.



All figures measured on stock intercooled engine with stock pump settings and 16cm housing. Figures can vary slightly as factory pump settings vary.

 

[nascar mark]

Originally posted by DPKetchum

At the time there wasn'nt any discussions about amount of holes etc. I e/mailed and called around looking for facts/answers and prices. Ended up taking to Doug at Advance Diesel Tech. (Smokin Diesel. Com?)and he said there were other options such as a injector that put out around 40 to 42 h. p. a inbetween POWS and PODS less smoke etc. The price was less then other places quoted for P. W. and no core involved. I said ship them. They came in a BullyDog Tech. box. Ended up there a marine injector. They were new. Housings said made in Brazil. He commented that they were bought in cases of 100!That he and several others(i guess Bully Dog)used lots of them. With shipping they were just a little over half the price PODS were. And no core. I just wanted to mentioned there is another affordable injector other then a 28hp POWS and 60h. p. PODS there is also a 40 h. p. unit also. They said it was a Marine injector. I had a shop in the Atlanta area quote me $700. 00 for a set of injectors also. Wasn't going that route so started shopping. Seemed all i heard was POWS or PODS. Wondered what else there was,Found those.

Don't know of anyone charging for cores on new 1st gen injectors?



New Bosch 185's are $399 and like everyone else, no cores needed.

POD's are reg $440 at PDR and go on sale from time to time for $399

They are new, matched and no cores needed.

 

[Mgrant]

Good thread!

What are the "Old Blue Specials" that Big Don was selling? I hear they were made by Lucas, but are the same as the PODs?



Mike

 

[Midnite]

Yup, they're the same injectors.



Mike

 

[Old Smoky]

Thanks for elaborating DPKetchum, and for the solid numbers Mark.



Mike

 

[DPKetchum]

Well i was nervous about posting prices I paid $285. 00 and that included new washers. My pump is basicaly a virgin. The full fuel screw has been turned about 1/2 a turn or so. Pump timing has been increased. This was done several years ago. Before new injectors It strained to pull 19psi of boost WOT and only pulled that at high speed. The norm was around 14 or 15 and when towing heavy at hiway speeds big hills would drop off from that. Top egt was in the middle 800 degree range. New injectors it now pulls 21or 21. 5 almost instant from a stop or slight roll and towing heavy will hold that and no sign of drop off. It holds that psi easily. Top egt is in the middle 900 degree range. Of the mods i've made they were the best bang for my bucks. I stay in decisive about going into the pump. It runs good,no lag,smoke is minor cool down is fairly quick etc. I know there is more to be had but it really runs and tows good now. Hate to mess with it. As far as this truck is concerned i'm kinda done spending any more money on mods. Just maintance now. Drive it another year or so and upgrade hopefully to a used 2003. Really want a 2003 now but just can't be done at this time. Prices are GREAT but my wallet isn'nt. Have had lots of health issues and horse sales is OFF bad. Got 16 horses and 5 mares due to drop more!