Self defense shotguns

[Koa Man]

Is the Remington 870 in 20 gauge a good self defense shotgun for home use? If not, other suggestions are welcome. I used to own many rifles and handguns and 2 shotguns before, but sold them all and haven't had a firearm for over 15 years, except for a Stevens 1915 falling block action single shot . 22 rimfire. (only gun I kept, for sentimental reasons. ) Cost is a consideration and pump action is probably the only one I would consider. Not having any problems and not looking to shoot someone... . just looking for advice and suggestions on a shotgun choice, since I have been out of the firearms scene for so long.

 

[KMC]

Not a bad choice at all in fact probably one of the best. You could add a pistol grip and a magazine extension as an option for more capacity. There is probably more aftermarket add on's for the 870 than any other comparable gun such as the Winchester 1300 or Mossberg 500. 20 gauge will do the job with a bit less recoil and flash than a 12 gauge. Even a 410 gauge will do a number on a bad guy because it holds a nice tight pattern. Some guys suggest 00-buck shot but even no. 7 shot will do a huge amount of damage and has the bennefit of not over penetrating through walls to the kids room, etc.



My . 02... ...

 

[sdalton]

I have an 870 Rem. , But I have to say that right out of the box defense wise, the Winchester 1300 is better suited, more reliable, and less expensive. I prefer the 12 ga. for defense. Who cares about a little recoil in a stress situation. Your adrenaline will be pumping and you wont even know the difference. Also, you have a better selection of defensive ammo for a 12 ga.

 

[muddyboots]

I thought self-defense was illegal in Hawaii. The 870's probably your best choice, but I wouldn't give up my Ithaca 37.

 

[MJawsman]

The rule of thumb I was taught was a short barrelled shotgun for home defense with a high magazine capacity (riot gun) works well. I'd stay away from heavy ammo (00 for example) due to the penetrating capacity. You certainly don't want to shoot at a bad guy and accidentally hurt your neighbor! Just my $. 02.

 

[Todd G]

A buddy of mine has a . 410 derringer for home defense. You can't miss. I'm afraid to ask of the legality issue.

 

[Koa Man]

Recoil doesn' bother me, I used to own a 7mm Mag. and shot my cousin's 300 Win. Mag quite a bit. Also had a S&W 44 mag. revolver and that recoil did not bother me unless I was shooting paper targets. I would have it loaded only with the lowest power loads and #2-4 shot. Reason I was thinking of a 20 gauge is did not want shot passing very far pass a wall. I am very familiar with handloading, since I've handloaded thousands of rounds in the past. I could make up some custom loads also.



sdalton,

Why is Winchester 1300 a better choice straight out of the box?



muddyboots,

Our legislature seems to be afraid of citizens protecting themselves. Hawaii probably has the 2nd strictest gun laws in the nation, although I know first hand of two cases where a firearm was used and the person doing the shooting got no jail time. About 20 years ago a friend of mine (a crazy, tough, Silver Star Vietnam vet) along with his brother, met up with these 5 guys who beat up his cousin. When his brother jumped out of the car, one guy shot him in the stomach. My friend pulls out his shotgun and a big firefight erupts on a public street. All five guys in the other car were armed. Total of about 30 shots were fired... he killed them all... received probation. 2nd case, number of burglaries in friend's neighborhood. He notices a couple of guys taking stuff out of his neighbor's house. He grabs his . 38 and goes to see what is going on. Bad guy throws stereo component he his carrying at him and runs. He shoots and wounds him. Police come and arrest him for attempted murder. Goes to trial and jury refuses to convict. Ended up receiving one year probation. Many are working on getting concealed carry here, but don't think it will happen.

 

[KMC]

Originally posted by Todd G

A buddy of mine has a . 410 derringer for home defense. You can't miss. I'm afraid to ask of the legality issue.

That is intersting and I am not quite sure... A number of years ago I saw a large revolver that took . 410 shells at a gun store but haven't seen something like it in quite a while. Perhaps it was a Class 3 device? Or are smaller caliber shot shells allowed in barrels under 18" ? It certainly can't be shot itself because you can get bird shot loads for most of the pistol calibers these days...



Any GCA or ATF experts care to comment?

 

[wcaldwell]

Call the 82-year-old man here in Albuquerque. His wife saw a couple kids spray painting the side of the store next to their house and when the kids saw her, they shot at her. Her husband came out with his shotgun and fired hitting one of the kids in the face with birdshot. He won't be charged and the two kids are in jail. Oo. Oo. Oo. Oo. Oo.

 

[Cummins4Life]

I dont know if they make an 870 youth model in 12ga but that would be nice. Oo.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by Cummins4Life

I dont know if they make an 870 youth model in 12ga but that would be nice. Oo.

We have 2 Remington 870's on a rack on our bedroom wall. A 20ga youth model loaded with heavy dove load for my wife. A 12ga regular model loaded with #1 shot for me. I do wish there was an affordable shorter barrel for the 12ga, though - it's awfully long to be trying to swing it around in the house.



Rusty

 

[RT66DOC]

ALL GOOD

I agree with everything everybody said above. ANY shotgun makes a fine social gun to keep around the house.



I have a Winchester Defender 1300 12ga. I think it was around $400 new 6 or 7 years ago. I like it - 12 ga, high magazine capacity (8), short barrel (18"), all matte black (low maintenance). As for ammo, I use 00 Tactical Loads but, as mentioned above, anything will do - birdshot, trap loads, etc. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of any of them.



One thing to keep in mind is the rather short effective range - what? <20' or something like that for the knockdown you'd be looking for in that type situation, i. e. , one shot stop and throw 'em down backwards. Speaking of one shot stops brings to mind another thought: if you ever, God forbid, are in a situation like that always rack another load into the chamber as soon as you fire -you never know...



There is an excellent training video "Tactical Shotgun", made by Gunsite, a well respected training facility in AZ. The video discusses gun choices, aftermarket add-ons (bombing?) and tactics. I bought one (and a few others) through Dillon Precision (reloading machines and alot of other gun stuff), also in AZ. I think they both have websites for ordering. I also enjoy receiving Dillon's catalog every month - "The Blue Press". It's free and always includes a few good articles, not to mention the famous monthly Blue Press covergirls. BTW, Dillon is one of those rare companies that maintains excellent service/customer relations. I can find the 800# for Dillon if anybody needs it - let me know.



Get a 12 ga and practice with it - recoil isn't bad if you know what to expect.

 

[RT66DOC]

KOA MAN - Just read your last post about your reloading experience, so you're probably no stranger to Dillon, eh?

 

[KMC]

Originally posted by RustyJC





We have 2 Remington 870's on a rack on our bedroom wall. A 20ga youth model loaded with heavy dove load for my wife. A 12ga regular model loaded with #1 shot for me. I do wish there was an affordable shorter barrel for the 12ga, though - it's awfully long to be trying to swing it around in the house.



Rusty

Rusty, you can routinely find used 870 barrels on e-bay for as low as $50, and usually not more than $100. Brand new at cheaperthandirt.com for $90 (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/...gid=&mscssid=RVHF9T984MXA8ML9UNG5DXW3DQNH72A5). This is for 18-20" cylinder bore which is what you want anyway. Don't know what you have on there now but a 28" VR barrel could be a serious liability when trying to manuever in a hallway, etc. I would make it a priority to swap that long puppy out.



You also bring up a good point that not everyone can handle a 12 gauge recoil. I am 6', 220lbs - not a problem for me but for smaller woman and some men a 20 gauge would be better suited. Especially if multiple shots and rapid target re-aquisition are required. And yes a 20 gauge will still do plenty of damage.



Ken

 

[Koa Man]

Re: ALL GOOD

Originally posted by RT66DOC

I use 00 Tactical Loads but, as mentioned above, anything will do - birdshot, trap loads, etc. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of any of them.

I personally would not want to be on the receiving end of even a BB gun at close range. Been there, done (had) that as a kid. Didn't penetrate, but sure hurt like h*ll.

 

[Rob Thomas]

Re: Re: ALL GOOD

Originally posted by Koa Man





I personally would not want to be on the receiving end of even a BB gun at close range. Been there, done (had) that as a kid. Didn't penetrate, but sure hurt like h*ll.

Been there, still have the proof, one of the dumbest things I did as a kid. We useta go into the woods and have BB gun wars, what a dumbs$$ I was. Long story short, got hit with what I thought was a stick, then after closer evaluation, realized it wasn't a stick but, a damn BB! double

It's just below my eye socket, I tried the razor blade thing but, couldn't get it out, and certainly COULDN"T tell ma and pa. :{ So I just left it alone, it's still there 18 years later, doesn't bother me at all, it makes a conversation peice... ... ... Hi, I'm Rob and I have a BB real close to my eye!

The crap I did when I was young is the reason I don't have my own brats, it's much easier to worry 'bout my truck, instead of kids.



Moral to the story, don't get shot in the face!:{



Later, Rob

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by KMC





Brand new at cheaperthandirt.com for $90. This is for 18-20" cylinder bore which is what you want anyway.

Ken,



So, would the following one work? It's made by Mossberg, they have 15 in stock for $87. 69 - cheaperthandirt part number is 46586. What else would I need (choke tube, etc. ) to make the replacement?

Extra Barrels, Remington 870, 12 Gauge, 18. 5" Plain, Bead Sight, Cylinder Bore, Parkerized Finish

Rusty

 

[Shovelhead]

My "house" gun.

Mossberg model 500 "Persuader"

18 1/2" open choke barrel, synthetic "Speed Feed" stock.

Removed "Plug" filled with #6 low brass.

 

[KMC]

Originally posted by RustyJC





Ken,



So, would the following one work? It's made by Mossberg, they have 15 in stock for $87. 69 - cheaperthandirt part number is 46586. What else would I need (choke tube, etc. ) to make the replacement?







Rusty

Should work fine. Mossberg makes replacement barrels for the Remington 870. You can also get Remington made barrels but they are more $$$.



You do not need a choke with a cylinder bore barrel as they are "chokeless". Virtuallly all short length defensive barrels are of this nature.



How old is your 870? The above barrel should handle 2 3/4 shells and 3" shells. Is your 870 a magnum version? Another good add-on is a magazine tube extension. Newer 870's (as of a few years - 870 Express) have been factory fixed to not be a able to take extensions but they can be modified to do so. Older 870's, Wingmasters, etc. can take mag. extensions w/o a problem.



Like I mentioned before there is more aftermarket stuff and science that has gone into the 870 than any other pump to date. They were standard issue for Military and PD use for years. They are being by and large replaced by the Mossberg 590-a1 these days. For this reason you can find surplus police trade-in 870 riot gun type configurations around for as cheap as $150. By the time you buy a barrel, mag. tube extension, pistol grip, etc. it might be cheaper to find one of these instead and keep your existing 870 as a bird gun...



Do an internet search on Remington 870 and you will find a bunch of stuff. Here is one basic site for general tune up, w/ links to part suppliers, etc.



http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/2997/870.html



These guys make alot of add-on parts:



http://www.tacstar.com/tacstar/index.htm



Here's a guy who built up a project gun using an Express model, etc.



http://www.snipercountry.com/Rem870Express.html



Hope some of this stuff helps, Ken

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by KMC





Should work fine. Mossberg makes replacement barrels for the Remington 870. You can also get Remington made barrels but they are more $$$.

Great!

You do not need a choke with a cylinder bore barrel as they are "chokeless". Virtuallly all short length defensive barrels are of this nature.

OK - didn't know how to interpret the "cylinder bore" barrel description - didn't know if it was threaded for a choke or not.

How old is your 870?

About 2 years old.

The above barrel should handle 2 3/4 shells and 3" shells.

OK

Is your 870 a magnum version?

Yes.

Another good add-on is a magazine tube extension. Newer 870's (as of a few years - 870 Express) have been factory fixed to not be a able to take extensions but they can be modified to do so. Older 870's, Wingmasters, etc. can take mag. extensions w/o a problem.

Wouldn't you know - mine's the Express!



Thanks for all the help, Ken. I really appreciate it!



Rusty