Service departments

[Tom Schuster]

Last Sunday the CEL went on and the overhead displayed "catalyst 80% stat. " I took the truck out and within 15 miles it went to "catalyst 90% stat" and then "catalyst full, service req'd. " Monday morning I called the local dealer (not the one I bought it from) and explained the situation. They said bring it in Friday at 10 a. m. (that was the earliest they could get me in there).



I got to the dealer yesterday at 10 a. m. They took the truck in at 10:15. By 10:30 it was back in the parking lot. I went to the service tech and asked how much longer they thought it would take to fix it and he said, "It's done--it threw some codes and they aren't sure what to do about it. " He then proceeded to explain to me what the codes were, but I stopped him and rattled them all off from memory and what they meant. I said, "We found the codes ourselves and THAT'S why I made the appointment, so you could fix the problem!" He hemmed and hawed a bit so I asked to speak to a diesel tech.



The diesel tech came out and said that the codes meant that I needed to go out and drive it and get it into a regen cycle. I said, "Did anyone bother to look at the overhead console that says "catalyst full, service required"? Oh no, they hadn't. I explained that I had TRIED to get it into a regen cycle and it wouldn't go and that's why I was here. He got all flustered and said, "Well no one TOLD me that," and I said, "Well, I explained all of this when I made the appointment!" :-{}



Fortunately the head diesel tech happened to be passing through, even though it was his day off. They snagged him and I explained (in front of these bozos) what had happened and he nodded and said, "It needs to come in so we can force it into a regen cycle. " (FINALLY! Someone who is fluent in 6. 7-ese!) I then asked him about the Rev A and Rev B flashes and they all looked at the scanner printout and couldn't find anything, but he said they would go over all of that on Monday and do whatever needed to be done. I asked him if he had run into anyone else with this engine issue and he said yes.



I hate to think what would have happened if I hadn't had access to this forum and the combined wisdom of you people. I HATE going to service departments anyway because men immediately assume if you have two boobs you're an idiot. But thanks to you guys, I could speak fairly intelligently about what was happening with the engine.



I'd REALLY love to have access to the computer database that spits out two pages of explanations and illustrations when you punch in the error code.



Janet (the Mrs. )

2007. 5 3500 MegaCab

 

[MKeener]

You really cant knock the service departments. I am a tech with caterpillar and we have the same problem with the new engines. Plain and simple caterpillar has not provided us with enough information about the new fault code they have put in the ECM. So i dont know if you can blame the dealership for them not knowing about your new truck or calling them bozos.
Mike

 

[Old Man]

May I suggest a web site that might come in handy in the future (especially TSB'S). dodgeram.org. It has been very helpfull to me in past. Just trying to help.

 

[Moose Truck]

Oh, Yes You CAN!!!

You really cant knock the service departments. I am a tech with caterpillar and we have the same problem with the new engines. Plain and simple caterpillar has not provided us with enough information about the new fault code they have put in the ECM. So i dont know if you can blame the dealership for them not knowing about your new truck or calling them bozos.

Mike

The three Dealers I've dealt with are ran by Bozzo's, no doubt about it. I've even had one jerk of a service manager call me "One of those TDR Guys!! :-laf" because I knew what Flash I wanted for 2nd Gen fast Idle. I did not want to pay 1. 5 hr Diagnosic Fee, I just wanted the 3 Cly Fast Idle. I am glad that I am my own Waranttee Station!! (PS, a buddy with Smarty Set me right up. ) If DC want's me to buy a new $45,000+ from them, then they need to fix their need to hire Idiot Bozzoo Service Managers. Ask any one with rusty doors in a at the time 4 year old truck.



Great Engine, Fair Truck, Bad Service Dealers. Moose

 

[Tom Schuster]

So i dont know if you can blame the dealership for them not knowing about your new truck or calling them bozos.

Mike

This wasn't a matter of them not having information from Dodge. This was a matter of them not bothering to listen when I explained what the problem was (and also not bothering to look at the overhead console to see that it said "catalyst full, service required"). Heck, if this group of people on this forum knows what the problem is, don't you think a DEALER which SELLS a PRODUCT should recognize what the problem is?



And they DID have a diesel tech who knew about my new truck. Had they LISTENED when I called to make the appointment and explained what the problem was, they might even have scheduled me on a day when this particular tech (apparently the only one who knows anything about this 6. 7L engine) was working, instead of wasting everyone's time with this appointment to hook it up to the scanner and pull the codes and then play a guessing game about what it might be and how to fix it. I was very specific when I called. I didn't just say, "My truck has a problem, can I bring it in?" I told them exactly what was going on, what the error codes were, and that it was one of the new 6. 7L engines. I was trying to work WITH them and save us all some time and effort. Didn't work.



Janet (the Mrs. )

2007. 5 3500 MegaCab

 

[Tom Schuster]

May I suggest a web site that might come in handy in the future (especially TSB'S). dodgeram.org. It has been very helpfull to me in past. Just trying to help.

Thanks, we'll check it out!



Janet (the Mrs. )

2007. 5 3500 MegaCab

 

[Sasquatch]

Actually, where I come from, "having two boobs" puts you up on a pedestal and causes men to drool uncontrollably.

It's these sorts of distractions that prevent us from remembering small details such as what's being displayed on the overhead console.

Things would smooth out, nicely, if they'd just dispense boobs on demand, and we didn't have to wait for them to walk in the front door at unexpected intervals.

 

[Wolfy]

Team Effort using Combined Resources

Actually, where I come from, "having two boobs" puts you up on a pedestal and causes men to drool uncontrollably.



It's these sorts of distractions that prevent us from remembering small details such as what's being displayed on the overhead console.



Things would smooth out, nicely, if they'd just dispense boobs on demand, and we didn't have to wait for them to walk in the front door at unexpected intervals.

I think that taking "mine" (by association) along gets quicker and more eager attention, which I then attempt to at-least-partially deflect onto the reason for the visit, using my vast TDR-honed knowledge .



As to quantity,... "two" seem to work nicely,... but I think three would disrupt the proceedings entirely!



Moderation in all things.

 

[Wolfy]

Tactic for "The Mrs."?

Maybe a "man-puppet" (ala Charlie McCarthy) is the ticket.



Once certain "attributes" have gathered the service dept. audience, ... speak through the puppet re. the tech stuff.



Their Pavlovian respectful response to the "man"'s voice may get the truck tended-to, while the same type of respectful(let's hope) response to other things will keep them attentive.



PS; If you don't mind a correction, ... it is not that your having assets makes YOU an idiot, ... it's just that it makes THEM (us?) idiots! [They(we?) are aware that it is happening, but what can you expect an idiot to do about it?]

 

[JimB1]

Service dept's will never change 'cuz their methods make easy money. For every 1 informed customer there's 9 that say bha-ah-ah-ah and fork over the $$$$$. The informed customers strongest tactic is stay cool-calm-collected and continously replay the knowledge information you have to those who don't and/or pretend to not understand. Soon as you get testy you've handed over the lever they're waiting for in order to control rest of situation. Most mechanics really do want to do good work. It's in our nature otherwise we wouldn't be packing tools for a living. Nearly every service dept shortcoming is tied to a business cycle of profit milked from the 9 out of 10 uninformed customers. I'm a career field service tech in a different trade but the service business cycle management template crosses all boundaries. I'm also a few months away from long anticipated retirement. I still like my work a lot but seeing good cash paying customers jerked through the keyhole has taken away all the fun and pride of doing quality work.

 

[Tom Schuster]

Service department update

Maybe a "man-puppet" (ala Charlie McCarthy) is the ticket.



Once certain "attributes" have gathered the service dept. audience, ... speak through the puppet re. the tech stuff.

Wolfy, this idea had me laughing all weekend (as did the "boobs on demand"), but unfortunately I could not find a puppet that looked suitably intimidating.



HOWEVER, since they did tell me to be there at 7:30 am today, I was there by 7:10 and the first one in the door when they unlocked it. I had to introduce myself to yet another service tech :{ who asked me if I had an appointment. When I said I did not--that I was just following the instructions I had been given to be there at 7:30--he said, "Well, we might not get to it right away. " I smiled and said, "That's okay, I am just going to go hang out in your waiting room until you do. "



I went and sat down and within 10 minutes they had taken it into the shop. I guess they decided it was in their best interests not to make me wait too long.



The bad news is that they tried to reprogram it TWICE and it didn't take either time. Both the tech I talked to on Friday and the one I introduced myself to this morning came into the waiting room and said I should just go ahead and take it home (I was there for five hours--I got a lot of work done while I was waiting). They were going to call HQ and find out what they should do next, since they had followed procedure and it hadn't worked. They mentioned the possibility of replacing a part (the ECM?) and if they have to do that, they will let me know and have me come in again on Wednesday.



So I am still driving around a truck with a de-rated engine which is getting great mileage (17. 9 says the console) but I think I'd rather have my peppy engine which got lousy mileage because I really like getting slammed back in my seat when I accelerate. I'll keep you all posted.



Janet (the Mrs. )

2007. 5 3500 MegaCab

 

[fkovalski]

This wasn't a matter of them not having information from Dodge. This was a matter of them not bothering to listen when I explained what the problem was ...

No disrespect to you, but service departments will generall not take a customer's word when it come to a diagnosis. Suppose they did follow directly your lead and it was not the problem. They cannot fault you for a wrong diagnosis... they will have to take the rap.



I have on several occassions told the dealer (what I thought) the problems was. They always come back, "We'll have to check it out. " ... and this was for just replacing the door seals



But, Yes! they should have listed to you more accuratly as to your information to solve the issue.

 

[Tom Schuster]

No disrespect to you, but service departments will generall not take a customer's word when it come to a diagnosis.

Yeah, okay, I can understand why they wouldn't do that (actually, I don't, since *I* drive the vehicle and they don't, but I understand that it's the norm). However, don't you think they'd appreciate at least a narrowing down of the forest so they didn't have to look at so many darned trees? Besides, it's kind of hard to argue with "catalyst 100%, service req'd" as a diagnosis. It's not like I made that up.



Janet (the Mrs. )

2007. 5 3500 MegaCab

 

[Jefff929]

Having pulled a wrench or two, the service advisor and manager position should be eliminated as it has developed.



The local Honda shop hires service counter people based on their personality. I know this because; they hired a friend that can't find a valve stem cover, when you point to it. He freely admits he knows nothing about cars and yet there he is. When I talk cars/truck stuff his eyes glaze over and he gets a strange look like he is checking out the ceiling spiders with his x-ray vision in the room above.



I routinely leave notes with my number in the seat, and in the engine compartment for the techs if I take my truck to the dealer. I don't trust the service advisor past where I can throw them, my back is bad. As far as I'm concerned the desk people are a glorified door stop. I don't think they lie on purpose, I believe they are really that ignorant and believe the line of bull they spout.



I'm not real sure how to solve the 6. 7 regen issue. Communication has always worked for me. Right up front they know: I don't trust them to communicate with the tech, I consider them an impediment to getting what service I need, they will not lie to me or shine on my Mrs. I will talk with the owner of the dealership as I have in the past, I hate it when I have to train a new service desk person so they try and cut me off before I get to the fresh meat. I can't imagine how they would react to a woman who knows what she is talking about. :-laf

 

[Tom Schuster]

I’m not real sure how to solve the 6. 7 regen issue.

I am trying to give these guys the benefit of the doubt (they tried for five hours), but my husband pointed out tonight that maybe they were trying to flash the ECM with the program for the C&C, not the trucks. I had forgotten that that happened to someone else here or I would have asked about that (I am sure that would have won me additional points ).



Janet (the Mrs. )

2007. 5 3500 MegaCab

 

[BHolm]

I'm not sure how anyone can purport to defend the way most dealer service departments are run these days. There is sooooooo much free (or inexpensive) information on the internet these days, it boggles my mind why TDR isn't REQUIRED reading for service mangers and service writers. I would think that they would really WANT to be able to speak intelligently about their job. I would think that they would want to know what they are talking about when they deal with most peoples second largest investment. I think it is a sad diatribe when we buy $40-50k trucks and get shoddy service, then nobody seems to care.



I had to go to the owner of the dealership where I have bought three new trucks and a new car in three years time to complain about my service treatment. The scary part is that it was the third strike. I had been trying REALLY hard to work WITH them as noted by others, only to be shat on again. What scared me was how unconcerned the owner (or son of the owner) was about this mess. I brought my truck in for ball joints, power window regulator and a replacement front driveshaft. I had it there at 8am as agreed. At 4pm I was called and told they would need it three more days. I called the service manager and asked if I needed to bring my tools down and show them how it was done. The truck BTW had not been touched all day. The manager insisted they would need more than a day to get that work done. I proceeded to quote him book times for the work needed, which didn't add up to 8hrs. I also know that good techs regularly beat book time especially on virtually new vehicles where rust and such isn't a hinderance. By some miracle they DID get the work done in a day, the very next day. The service manager had asked me if I wanted them to do the work or just come and get the truck. I told him I would be right over. What kind of crud is that to say to a good paying customer? When I did come down, that is when I met with his boss.



It is just a shame that you have to fight so hard to get what should come naturally to these people. Definately way too many BOZOS out there in service departments. Is there no pride anymore? Just paychecks for most of the bozos I guess

 

[JimB1]

It's the business cycle template. 9 of 10 customers are unknowing and pay willingly. Real service competition is only thing that could change this. That would require proprietary information to become open source and that isn't going to happen. Probably about middle 1960's automotive technology was seriously increasing at such a pace that independents were getting squeezed out in large numbers and that's when service really started going downhill.

 

[Caveman]

Man, I can sympathize here. The first tech who is not the normal tech told me there was only a TSB for the C&C. I restated that YES in fact there is a TSB for the DPF issue before he found it.

I waited thinking they would get to my truck faster and have me out the door in an hour or so. Unfortunately, I did not get much done in the 3. 5 hours I ended up waiting. The only mechanic programming truck today had trouble on more than my truck.

The normal tech told me exactly what to expect. Of course, the first words out of his mouth were drive it for at least 45 minutes in a lower gear to force the regen cycle. He then said it would throw a code they need to reset, so bring it back after the drive.

I drove 45 minutes one way and 45 minutes back just to be safe and with no new codes. He said I was lucky and no code was a really good sign.

I noticed the same mileage in 5th gear driving 70 MPH at 2300 RPM after the reflash that I was getting in 6th pre-reflash. So, things are looking good for my truck.

 

[Tom Schuster]

Man, I can sympathize here. The first tech who is not the normal tech told me there was only a TSB for the C&C. I restated that YES in fact there is a TSB for the DPF issue before he found it.

I guess these guys are so busy working on trucks that they just don't have time to do the necessary research? Why is it that WE can find the TSB's but they can't seem to? [Yeah, I know, it's that business model again. ]



I took Old Man's suggestion and went to the dodgeram.org website and there were the TSB's for both the C&C and the trucks. My husband told me to print them out and take them with me in case the techs at the service department hadn't figured out what was going on. I stopped there yesterday (they still smile when I walk in the door, but I imagine they all start swearing when they see my truck pull up). One of the guys I talked to on Monday came right over and said they had called Dodge and found out that there is "an update to the update" that they had tried to program on Monday. So I am taking it in again this afternoon and they will try once more.



If my older daughter weren't taking driver's ed right now, I would have just driven back over to Spokane to Dishman and had them fix this problem. Unfortunately, she's got class from 12-2 every day so I'm kind of stuck here, breaking in a new service department.



Janet (the Mrs. )

2007. 5 3500 MegaCab

 

[Tom Schuster]

Janet (the Mrs. )



I feel for you. I worked as a "bozo" service advisor for a year and a half before the stress told me to leave.

Look, I know that all of the service advisors out there aren't bozos. I don't think I am an overly demanding customer. I am polite and friendly and I go out of my way to cooperate and make sure that everyone has all the information they need from me to address the problem. Service advisors start out as allies but become bozos when they refuse to listen, or they treat me like I can't possibly know anything because my anatomy is different than theirs.

Rather than spend all day at the dealership if they have rental cars have them pay for it.

I have a spare truck. We could have dropped my MegaCab off and I could have driven my other truck around town that day. Sitting in their waiting room (which happens to be their showroom) was part of the strategy. I didn't HAVE to wait, but my husband pointed out that if I hadn't been there to pop in once and hour and ask how things were going, they might have let my truck sit in the parking lot and not dealt with it. I had work with me that was just as easily done in their showroom as it was in my office here at home, so no problem. Having someone sitting in your showroom for five hours is a pretty big incentive to address the problem, don't you think?



I like the ideas of taking pictures and leaving notes in the vehicle for the service techs. I'll make sure I do that in the future.



Janet (the Mrs. )

2007. 5 3500 Mega Cab