Okay guys, I'm in a class to get an upgrade for my CDL from a class C to a B with no restrictions. I'm going to take it on a Chevy Top Kick with a 9 speed roadranger. I haven't had hands on experience with a big truck standard trans, but I have the double clutch concept in my mind, played around with my 5 speed a few times to see if I can get the coordination, especially down shifting, even tried no clutch shifting to see how it's done. So is it really that hard to shift a roadranger trans? It's a newer truck, maybe 3 years at the oldest (if that makes a difference). Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Shifting roadrangers
- Thread starter Kalaehina
- Start Date
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I haven't driven enough of them to know which ones I have driven or not.
Just don't be afraid to use the throttle to get the rpms where they need to be.
If noones around, drop the visor down and take a crash course on vehicle operation, that sticker on the visor has saved me a time or two!
Just don't be afraid to use the throttle to get the rpms where they need to be.
If noones around, drop the visor down and take a crash course on vehicle operation, that sticker on the visor has saved me a time or two!
Newbies on the RR tend to not shift fast enough. They lose their rpm's. As they attempt to go from neutral to the intended gear, they naturally start to feel the "grind", pull it back to neutral, rev it maybe, and try again only to find it grinds even more. If you do this, go back to the previous gear or lower and start again. On the downshift, you want your rpm's to be low but not to low, as you move your gear shift through neutral, you want to rev up to match or be slightly below that rpm before you clutch and pull it into the intended gear. Don't be to concerned with dropping a bunch of gears coming to a stop. One or two is sufficient. If you miss one, don't get caught up recovering and forget your task at hand.
Learn how to shift with the clutch before you go clutchless. And don't push the clutch in more than halfway while moving. It's hard on the clutch brake. When you go clutchless, concentrate on the upshift. Once you get that down, then learn the downshifting.
Oh' don't go clutchless on your ram, it's hard on the syncro's.
Shifting techniques vary infinitely with road and load conditions. The torque load can demand exacting coordination. You may find yourself choosing to use or not to use the clutch on occasion.
On the nine speed, once you do your split, remember not to pull the stick back to the former 1st gear position. You only have four speeds on the high side.
Ask questions. When I went to shift a MB powered truck one night, I could not shift without the clutch. I found out that this thing had an engine brake with no switch. It would drag the rpm's down before you could nail it yet it was subtle unlike a jake brake.
Learn how to shift with the clutch before you go clutchless. And don't push the clutch in more than halfway while moving. It's hard on the clutch brake. When you go clutchless, concentrate on the upshift. Once you get that down, then learn the downshifting.
Oh' don't go clutchless on your ram, it's hard on the syncro's.
Shifting techniques vary infinitely with road and load conditions. The torque load can demand exacting coordination. You may find yourself choosing to use or not to use the clutch on occasion.
On the nine speed, once you do your split, remember not to pull the stick back to the former 1st gear position. You only have four speeds on the high side.
Ask questions. When I went to shift a MB powered truck one night, I could not shift without the clutch. I found out that this thing had an engine brake with no switch. It would drag the rpm's down before you could nail it yet it was subtle unlike a jake brake.
Hey thanks guys for all the advice, I'm nervous yet excited to finally try this, I have about a week or 2 more of class room work and pre check studies then I go hands on. I will be first driving in a parking lot then when my teacher feels I'm ready we'll go on the road. QRTRHRS, gotcha on the 9 speed having only 4 high gears, when I first learned the patterns I only knew 10 speed which is fairly easy to remember, 5 over 5. I just hope I don't get nervous test day and freeze up. I know if I drive the same truck enough I'll get more comfortable. Thanks again guys!
It well go in 1st on the high side. Done that once or twice by accident when hopping between trucks. I usto to just downshift the high side and leave it in gear using the service brakes when I first started out. I had problems with the split for the longest time until I figured out the right cordnation between the throttle and shifting.
Consider yourself lucky, I had to take my driving test on a 85 GMC Brigadier L10 w/ a 9 spd. That thing ya only had about a 300 rpm gap b/w gears insteada most others that ya have about a 500 rpm gap. But that truck gets a new clutch every few years b/c they just use it to teach kids on at the school.
Nathan
Consider yourself lucky, I had to take my driving test on a 85 GMC Brigadier L10 w/ a 9 spd. That thing ya only had about a 300 rpm gap b/w gears insteada most others that ya have about a 500 rpm gap. But that truck gets a new clutch every few years b/c they just use it to teach kids on at the school.
Nathan
UPDATE-Well I've driven twice, and oh boy do I have a new respect for you truck drivers out there. Man that 9 speed takes some coordination. The truck I'm using only has 12,000 miles on it so the trans is not very forgiving. Up shifting I've seemed to get the hang of, down shifting needs a little work, mainly when to start slowing down. I'm a "10 feet from the stop sign then start slowing down" guy, so I have to get used to applying the brake pedal waaaay back, FOOT OFF THE CLUTCH, until I am almost dying out, all unatural feelings for me. Honestly I have the hardest time getting into gear from a stop, I clutch brake then try to come over to 2nd and I seem to grind 80% of the time, the stick doesn't have that spring that centers the stick so I have to aim it precisely, but getting into gear initially is hard. Any other advice? It's like I'm either too way over to the left-GRIND, not enough clutch in-GRIND, not enough to the left-GRIND, GRIND, GRIND! Yes I was getting frustrated, but hey try try again... ...
Don't wait until you are stopped to put the transmission into the gear you think you need. As you come to a "rolling stop", double clutch into that gear. Don't use to much throttle and don't push the clutch to the floor until you come to a stop. Does anyone else have trouble with it? Maybe the clutch needs some adjustment. As far as hitting the gates, practice, practice, practice.
Yah, I have to get used to not pushing the clutch in until I almost let the truck die out at a stop. Also a new technique for me, on my Dodge I don't push in the clutch that late, but I don't push it in early either, but my foot get's ready to, hovering over the clutch, but not touching it because I've heard it's not good to rest your foot on the clutch while you are moving. Testers don't want to see this, so I have to have my foot off the pedal and on the floor until the truck is almost shuddering then I have to clutch, just feels weird for now. Thanks for the encouragement, I was alomost thinking of just going with a syncrhoed 5 over 5 truck already, I am getting so frustrated.
What testers want-
Let me start with a little personnal history. After driving off and on for several years, I was out of it for near 25 years then found myself out of work. With a little grant money, I took a CDL course via a reputable school to update myself and get the CDL which I never had. This is what the instructors wanted: Upon approaching a stop, a few downshifts then braking without any shudder with the clutch disengaged (out). At the last possible moment, push the clutch in, then hold it in all the while at a stop. They wanted the next gear selected once stopped. Then, hold the clutch regardless of the time frame.
Now on the practical side, there are two schools of thought on this. Some drivers feel that at a stop with the clutch engaged and truck in gear, should someone rear end you, you might lurch forward, hitting someone else. Others feel that you might forget to put the truck in gear and drift backwards. Or, that you might not keep pressure on the brake and drift backwards. Depressing the clutch keeps you more focused.
After 14 months of driving again, I bagged it back in October at least for awhile but thats another story. Anyway, as long as the truck I was driving would allow it, I would put it in neutral and leave my foot off the clutch at a light. Once the light went yellow, I would depress the clutch and select my gear. Coming to a stop on a really rough surface, I might throw the transmission into neutral and rely simply on the brakes for better control. Lots of variables. This was with a single axle with pups, loaded nose heavy, empy, light, you name it. I vary my technique to meet the needs. Basically though, holding in the clutch is hard on my sciatic nerve.
Some more thoughts here. When I was training on doubles, we had a brand new tractor that neither I nor my trainer could hit tenth gear on without protest while upshifting. We figured out that you needed to clutch to get it out of ninth and into neutral but go clutchless to drop it into tenth. I drove that truck at 90K one day and it was still like that, go figure.
I would think the transmission can stay stiff for many miles depending on the usage but after five or ten K, with the clutch working, the brake should prevent grinding at a stop.
Let me start with a little personnal history. After driving off and on for several years, I was out of it for near 25 years then found myself out of work. With a little grant money, I took a CDL course via a reputable school to update myself and get the CDL which I never had. This is what the instructors wanted: Upon approaching a stop, a few downshifts then braking without any shudder with the clutch disengaged (out). At the last possible moment, push the clutch in, then hold it in all the while at a stop. They wanted the next gear selected once stopped. Then, hold the clutch regardless of the time frame.
Now on the practical side, there are two schools of thought on this. Some drivers feel that at a stop with the clutch engaged and truck in gear, should someone rear end you, you might lurch forward, hitting someone else. Others feel that you might forget to put the truck in gear and drift backwards. Or, that you might not keep pressure on the brake and drift backwards. Depressing the clutch keeps you more focused.
After 14 months of driving again, I bagged it back in October at least for awhile but thats another story. Anyway, as long as the truck I was driving would allow it, I would put it in neutral and leave my foot off the clutch at a light. Once the light went yellow, I would depress the clutch and select my gear. Coming to a stop on a really rough surface, I might throw the transmission into neutral and rely simply on the brakes for better control. Lots of variables. This was with a single axle with pups, loaded nose heavy, empy, light, you name it. I vary my technique to meet the needs. Basically though, holding in the clutch is hard on my sciatic nerve.
Some more thoughts here. When I was training on doubles, we had a brand new tractor that neither I nor my trainer could hit tenth gear on without protest while upshifting. We figured out that you needed to clutch to get it out of ninth and into neutral but go clutchless to drop it into tenth. I drove that truck at 90K one day and it was still like that, go figure.
I would think the transmission can stay stiff for many miles depending on the usage but after five or ten K, with the clutch working, the brake should prevent grinding at a stop.
Thanks man for the info, kinda encourages me more. Today I went over the actual test route, up a hill, down a hill, frequent stopping. I still can't guarantee a grindless engagement from a stand still, but am getting a little better in other areas. It's just alot of retraining myself, when to brake, slowing down sooner, not clutching til the last moment, though I personally think it's a smoother ride clutching a little earlier before the stop, but hey, do what I have to on test day. And man, I feel like I'm on a exercise machine for the first 6 gears, just shift, shift, shift, whew! I can't say it's all bad, it's fun when you do it right. Thanks again, wish me luck! Test date is the 27th.
At least you know the test route. My school's test started with a hard turn out of the parking lot. Everyone knew it was in the test but no one was allowed to try it prior to the big day. They even scheduled classes so no one could watch it being done. Hit the curb and the test was over.
Remember your other duties. I have had testers things like, how high did the sign say that bridge was? Duh. Don't look, what's your oil pressure? STOP! NOW! Which means to stop and get off the road and on the shoulder in asap but as safely as possible. Good luck with the test.
Remember your other duties. I have had testers things like, how high did the sign say that bridge was? Duh. Don't look, what's your oil pressure? STOP! NOW! Which means to stop and get off the road and on the shoulder in asap but as safely as possible. Good luck with the test.
I PASSED! I got it! BUT! Here's the kicker, I wanted to get my CDL B to drive older style Crown school buses that have 10 speed road rangers, so I took it on a non synchroed trans. I go to pay for my license and the lady writes on my file-"limited to class C bus", so I ask her why? She says because I took my B on a truck it doesn't qualify me to drive a bus?!?!?!?! So I can drive any single truck waaaaay heavier and longer then any bus, I have a passenger endorsement, but am not qualified to drive ANY bus over 15,000 lbs. Ah, more screwed up then a Ford with a 6. 0. So I have to take another class with a bus and take another test, hardest part is over though with the standard trans out of the way, I just hope they don't write "limited to auto trans bus". Plain stupid if you ask me, so in reality I found out there are 3 different class B CDL-Truck, School bus, and transit bus class B license. Thanks for all the advice guys, gave me hope. Here I go again.....
Fun and games huh?
Congrats on what you have done so far. I have the "P" endorsement but not the "S". Sorry, no rugrat hauling for me, although the school used a school bus for both classes. It had a five speed, air brakes and an IH DT something engine. The two biggies they focused on was stopping properly for all railroad tracks and putting it "in the box". That meant backing into a defined box both blind side and sight side. The trick was to keep the tail swing from going outside of the box while backing in and of course being in the box when done.
Do a search typing in CDL Passenger Test and you will come up with numerous tests for that part of it.
Congrats on what you have done so far. I have the "P" endorsement but not the "S". Sorry, no rugrat hauling for me, although the school used a school bus for both classes. It had a five speed, air brakes and an IH DT something engine. The two biggies they focused on was stopping properly for all railroad tracks and putting it "in the box". That meant backing into a defined box both blind side and sight side. The trick was to keep the tail swing from going outside of the box while backing in and of course being in the box when done.
Do a search typing in CDL Passenger Test and you will come up with numerous tests for that part of it.
Thanks, If I go for the bus license this will be the third time I go through the CDL process. Here they make you do it in 3 parts, Pretrip inspection, Basic skills, and road test. The pretrip depends on the vehicle, this truck I just did took about 20-30 minutes to cover everything, the small cutaway bus I did 9 years ago took about 15 minutes, I watched a guy do a tractor trailer pretrip test, took about 50 minutes, almost an hour. The basic skills test is the same for all single body vehicles, 4 manuevers-blind side parallel park, alley dock, serpentine, and right turn, if it's a tractor trailer then you do all that and probably not the right turn, but you also do a sight side parallel, straight back and straight forward between cones. Believe it or not, I actually had a harder time parallel parking this truck then the bus van I did 9 years ago, when I did the bus I had 0 points off, when I did the truck I got 4 points off. Even if I have to do this all over again with a bus I'm not worried, I learned on 40 foot motorcoaches, and drove a 30 foot Blue Bird all around our old base, so I am much more comfortable in a bus. We'll see what happens, I'll start again after new years. Merry Christmas!
Hammer
TDR MEMBER
Now we need to get him out driving a U-Model Mack with a Tri-Plex in it for a transmission and make sure the truck has no power steering. :-laf :-laf :-laf
. Of all the rides I have driven in my years of driving my favorite has had to have been the Peterbuilt 359 conventional I drove for a Owner Operator many years ago when I first started. I used to haul produce out of the "Valley" to back East here to the markets and grocery wharehouses and it had to be there always the day before you left out west,LOL. Outfitted with a KT600,lots of fuel & big chargers and backed by a 6x4 when it was time to scamper you could. Ah those were the days and they can not be done like that anymore. I didn't make alot of money,but gained alot of respect and knowledge,which ended me up with a great job driving a really slow freight truck where I belong. Memories... phew
. I myself have the passenger endorsements,both for passenger and school. I have a friend who has a fleet of school buses and took mine thru him with his encouragement. What Hammer learned in that lesson was this,DO NOT DRIVE A SCHOOL BUS!!!. You will quickly understand what you put your old bus driver thru once you try it. Its bad enough that the pubilc tests your every last nerve,add a bunch of rowdy school kids and its amplified by about 100 times. There are no more bus trips,school or passenger,with me at the helm,in my future,LOL... ... Andy
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Hah! Yah, I get alot of the same advice from people I meet, and the funny thing is some of them still drive school buses. I'm just kinda miffed at this whole CDL class thing, it's like there should be a CDL B1, CDL B2, and CDL B3, because that's basically what they are telling me. Oh well, I gotta go drive again on Tuesday, probably for the last time, just to show my teacher I got everything he taught me.
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