Should I add a Racor filter or do FASS?

[JStieger]

Just looking for some feedback...



I want to get fuel filtration finer than the stock 10-micron. I already have a Holley Blue pusher pump, but was debating adding a Racor filter/separator ahead of or after it, or removing the Holley and installing the FASS system.



The attractive things are:



-adding the Racor filter presents an incremental cost probably much less than purchasing the FASS system. Don't get me wrong I have the funds to purchase a FASS, but if I don't have to that is just that much more $$ for fuel and BOMBS.

-the Holley Blue is a pretty cheap pump that is easy to find at virtually any auto parts store. My Holley is NOT noisy at all either!

-if I can't find a Holley - big deal - use another pump instead in a pinch so you're not limited to a special pump to fit the separator/filter head.

-the Racor fuel heater can be tapped off the vehicle electrical system, whereas the FASS requires coolant to be plumbed to it.



The negatives are:



-custom fuel plumbing versus out-of-box fitting FASS kit.

-Racor filters are huge - 15 inches high - so finding a mounting place would be interesting

-no 3rd genners have appeared to have gone this way. I did a search on here and DTR and the only hits were 2nd gen guys with most 3rd genners going with the FASS.



Also, if I were to tap into the vehicle electrical system for the Racor fuel heater is it better to have a separate circuit for it with probably a switch to use in cold weather only? I know others have posted from all types of climates with no problems in regards to NOT having coolant plumbed to their FASS systems, but Murphy's Law is my shadow that follows me everywhere...



Let the debate begin...

 

[RMalone]

Excellent questions, that I have no answers for, and I too look forward to some educated discussion on the matter.

 

[rbattelle]

This is only my opinion...I am NOT bashing FASS

In my personal opinion, you should take the time to plumb in the Racor filter. Place it between the stock canister and the CP-3. This offers the following advantages:



1. Better filtration (of course).

2. Retention of the stock filter, effectively giving you a very large filtration capacity.

3. Retention of the stock fuel heater, which is automatically controlled by the ECM. It's there, it works, why throw it away?

4. Standardization. Holley blue pumps are cheap and easy to get anywhere. Changing out to standardized fittings allows you to get replacement parts for the entire system anywhere.

5. Customization. Like the difference between building your own computer and buying a Dell - you get precisely what you want and you know exactly where and how it all fits and works together.



And it offers the following disadvantages:

1. Your system will be one-of-a-kind. You'll be the only person on Earth qualified to work on it and diagnose any problems with it.

2. It's not a simple "bolt-on" turnkey setup. You'll have to do your own research and design - that takes time.



My recommendation is to run the system off it's own dedicated circuit and wire in a switch so you can turn the pump on from the cab at will. Such a feature makes fuel transfers easy (if necessary) and priming the system simple.



In any event, it'd be your system 100%... the sky's the limit in terms of customization. Mine has features to make plumbing in an Espar or Webasto heater a piece of cake, for instance.



Please take my opinion with a grain of salt! It's highly biased, because I chose to design my own system instead of buying a kit.



-Ryan

[P. S. - if you want to read about my research and development you'll find it in boring gory detail here: Project No. 2 ]

 

[jvjump]

Just make a plate and hang a water seperater and filter just like a fass but use your holley to push your fuel. You can get the filter holder from a tractor store. And still use fleetguard filters if you want.

 

[JStieger]

Ryan-



Thanks for the link! I'm going to take some under the hood measurements this weekend. I need 15 inches vertical clearance for the filter + 2 inches vertical clearance for filter removal, but heck if guys are installing twins there has got to be some room for this filter.



Here's a decent Racor catalog with all the measurement and pressure drop versus flow graphs that a person could ever want:



http://www.usdieselparts.com/category.cfm?Category=69



I'm eyeing the 4120R model - rated for 120 gph and 15 psi - with the 2 micron filter. My Holley does 110 gph and about 13 psi. I'm also eyeing the heater option with relay, but will skip on the water sensor since I'll probably would want to plumb through the stock canister... or maybe not...



might remove it all together and use standardized JIC fittings...





Well I better sit on this before getting too carried away! Oo.



Edit: If I remove the stock canister, I wonder if I can adapt the stock harness to the RACOR for WIF and the heater. What's the stock heater harness rated for? The catalog says the RACOR requires about 17 amps for 12 VDC.

 

[rbattelle]

But why throw out the stock canister? It works, it's already paid for, it includes its own filter; it's own heater; it's own WIF sensor. It will give you a "proper" step-down type filtration system to maximize the life of both filters. It can be converted to use jic (or AN) fittings.



Good luck getting that 15" filter assembly in there. I wanted to use a Davco FuelPro (as discussed in my thread) but just couldn't find anywhere convenient to mount it.



-Ryan

 

[JStieger]

But why throw out the stock canister? It works, it's already paid for, it includes its own filter; it's own heater; it's own WIF sensor. It will give you a "proper" step-down type filtration system to maximize the life of both filters. It can be converted to use jic (or AN) fittings.



Good luck getting that 15" filter assembly in there. I wanted to use a Davco FuelPro (as discussed in my thread) but just couldn't find anywhere convenient to mount it.



-Ryan

Read through your thread really quick! I hear you on the stock canister - I would keep it. I looked at PatrickCambell's web page and he has the Racor mounted on the frame rail like the big rigs and looks like the filter is under vacuum with this setup. What's the difference if the filter is under positive pressure or vacuum? Is the FASS system under vaccum or positive pressure?



I have a 400 series filter head I picked up new off the DTR classified for cheap so it looks like I might have to use it now...

 

[rbattelle]

Read through your thread really quick! I hear you on the stock canister - I would keep it. I looked at PatrickCambell's web page and he has the Racor mounted on the frame rail like the big rigs and looks like the filter is under vacuum with this setup. What's the difference if the filter is under positive pressure or vacuum? Is the FASS system under vaccum or positive pressure?

FASS filters are under pressure, as far as I know. Someone in that other thread made the comment that filters should be "pulled" through, but I couldn't get any explanation on why. Looking at typical automotive filter arrangements it's very rare to find a filter under vacuum. Patrick's setup is pretty awesome - another example of the quality you can get if you are willing to think a little and put in the time.



I think it's "safer" to push through the filter rather than relying on the suction capacity of the pump. Remember, these pumps don't suck very well. The Aeromotive I'm using is spec'd to have no finer than 40 micron filtration on the suction side... any more and you're risking some serious cavitation. That's bad for the pump and your CP-3.



-Ryan

 

[Sixpac2]

I looked at PatrickCambell's web page and he has the Racor mounted on the frame rail like the big rigs and looks like the filter is under vacuum with this setup.

JStieger1



1st, can you place a link tp PatrickCambell's wen page. I can not find it.





2nd, I to look forward to this disscussion. On my old Duramax I added the cat 2 micron filter between the tank and the stock filter. As we already know they do not have a LP and I am still confused why the dodges do. I would like to add a second filter as you do But if the factory Lift pump is removed and you want to plumb into the stock filter canister how do you do that? Wher do you get an adaptor. Thanks

 

[2Gen3Gen]

Wow, they still make Racor filters! I ran one on my 82 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Wagon (a real Tuna Boat!) since it was NEW with the wonderful 5. 7 GM Diesel :-laf If I remember correctally, the Olds Dealer is the one that sold and installed it. . Actually, that was one of the few 5. 7's that i know of that didnt blow up after 25k miles. Mine went 100k miles before I retired it and gave it to my brother, who put another 150k on it and blew a head gasket. After that, it was head gaslets every 30k. That finally got old and it now sits, parked behind the barn in Chico Ca. I must say, for being the joke Diesel from GM, I was one of the lucky ones that got a good one. It also got 25 mpg in the city! That was back when Diesel was 99cents or less a gallon :I know that my Racor helped save my pump. They were the best filter on the market back then. I would still think that they make a fine product. I just may look into one for my CTD! Thanks for the thought!

 

[JStieger]

1st, can you place a link tp PatrickCambell's wen page. I can not find it.

Here you go:



http://xj.cdevco.net/auto/fuelsystem/



I was also looking at the 490R model for these reasons. First, it's only 12" high so I gain 5" of vertical clearance over the 4120R I mentioned earlier. Second, it's rated at 90 gph/30 psi and has 3/8" NPT fittings. This will work well with my Holley blue kit that also has 3/8" fittings, but the Holley is surprisingly rated for 110 gph! Note that the 4120R I mentioned above comes with 3/4" NPT port threads to get the 120 gph rating. So the question is: how will the 90 gph Racor work with my 110 gph Holley?



The other thing is that if I mount the Racor in the engine compartment and retain the stock filter for prefiltering, then I would only need the heater on the stock unit because that is where fuel would gel anyway, correct? Also, I would think that the heat in the engine compartment would keep the Racor unit warm anyway?

 

[JStieger]

I would like to add a second filter as you do But if the factory Lift pump is removed and you want to plumb into the stock filter canister how do you do that? Wher do you get an adaptor. Thanks

Forgot to answer this earlier - Scotty of www.scottyairsystems.com used to sell this adapter fitting separately, but I don't know if he does anymore. It would be worth to give him a call though as he is a great person to deal with. If he doesn't sell them now, maybe enough people have given him a call between then and now that it might make him change his mind - you never know! Check out my reader's rig gallery for pictures of my Holley Blue install with wiring instructions.

 

[jwduke]

Is a Davco worth a cr@p? They are not really huge, plus have a pre warmer for the fuel.

 

[jwduke]

Davco makes a fuel filter system (Model 232) that is around 12" tall with a fuel heater. It is around $212 + the ride. It filters down to 5 microns, with a fuel flow rate of 60 gpm.



This is a idea... ... .

 

[Sixpac2]

Forgot to answer this earlier - Scotty of www.scottyairsystems.com used to sell this adapter fitting separately, but I don't know if he does anymore. It would be worth to give him a call though as he is a great person to deal with. If he doesn't sell them now, maybe enough people have given him a call between then and now that it might make him change his mind - you never know! Check out my reader's rig gallery for pictures of my Holley Blue install with wiring instructions.

I e-mailed scotty and he said he does not make them any more due to machine tolerance issues and end user install errors. Looks like Fass is the only one with the adapter? But you have to buy the whole pump kit.

 

[JStieger]

I e-mailed scotty and he said he does not make them any more due to machine tolerance issues and end user install errors. Looks like Fass is the only one with the adapter? But you have to buy the whole pump kit.

I was one of them that had to drill out the mounting holes of the adapter on a drill press. It wasn't a big deal, but it was kind of frustrating at the time. And Scotty was even more ticked off about it; you don't want to get him mad since he does those world strongman events! Diesel Dynamics also sells the adapter, but the rest of the kit comes with it! Here's a thread on DTR where member Muzzy made his own adapter with help from a machinist friend:



http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=65968&highlight=holley



Awesome pictures are in his gallery too. I emailed Muzzy a while back about his friend making some more for a side project and he responded that he could if I really wanted, was patient, and obviously some $ - but then I never totally pursued it since I thought it might be a PITA if it was just one adapter (at least that is how I would feel!).



The other thing I heard of was people removing the filter canister and then drilling and tapping the stock lift pump hole to accept NPT threads.

 

[rbattelle]

I e-mailed scotty and he said he does not make them any more due to machine tolerance issues and end user install errors. Looks like Fass is the only one with the adapter? But you have to buy the whole pump kit.

No way!! Did I get one of the only good ones? Mine works flawlessly!



JSteiger -

I think the 90 GPH rating for the Racor is mostly based on the fitting size (3/8 NPT). There won't be any problems running it with your Holley pump - if the pump tries to flow more than the Racor can handle it'll simply increase the back pressure on the pump and self-regulate. Know what I mean? In other words, if your Racor won't flow more than 90 GPH and your FP is flowing 110 GPH, you Racor will regulate the pump down to 90 GPH out of the outlet of the filter. Similar to the way an orifice works with compressible flow, if you know what I mean. That's just a guess. My fuel pump is capable of far more flow than my Stanadyne filter head, but I've never had any problems at all.



Drilling/tapping the stock canister... . now there's a good idea.



On Edit:

The other thing is that if I mount the Racor in the engine compartment and retain the stock filter for prefiltering, then I would only need the heater on the stock unit because that is where fuel would gel anyway, correct? Also, I would think that the heat in the engine compartment would keep the Racor unit warm anyway?

"I think so". I know the filter where I have it mounted does gather heat from the engine compartment. But with the engine running it remains quite cool, because airflow through the radiator and fan passes right across it. We'll see if I run into gelling problems this winter... I doubt I will. The stock fuel heater should ensure that the fuel reaching my secondary filter is warm enough to prevent gelling. I run a fuel additive that includes anti-gel, so it would have to get below -40 or so to gel anyways. That doesn't happen here. The fuel would gel anywhere the temperature gets low enough - not necessarily just at the stock canister. Remember also that the stock canister is in a place where it gets very warm from the engine. Actually, my stock canister gets downright HOT to the touch but my secondary filter, being mounted higher and directly in the airstream, remains only "warm" to the touch if the engine is running... it heats up after shutdown (see Project No. 2 data).



-Ryan

 

[Sixpac2]

I e-mailed scotty and he said he does not make them any more due to machine tolerance issues and end user install errors. Looks like Fass is the only one with the adapter? But you have to buy the whole pump kit.

I went to the Dealer today and we looked up the in tank retro kit. I lookes at the parts break down and Dodge uses an adaptor that bolts on whith 2 bolts where you remove the lift pump. Just like the Fass does. The Cost is $122 seems High. But if a person can not get one made then it is an option.

 

[steved]

FASS filters are under pressure, as far as I know. Someone in that other thread made the comment that filters should be "pulled" through, but I couldn't get any explanation on why. Looking at typical automotive filter arrangements it's very rare to find a filter under vacuum. Patrick's setup is pretty awesome - another example of the quality you can get if you are willing to think a little and put in the time.



I think it's "safer" to push through the filter rather than relying on the suction capacity of the pump. Remember, these pumps don't suck very well. The Aeromotive I'm using is spec'd to have no finer than 40 micron filtration on the suction side... any more and you're risking some serious cavitation. That's bad for the pump and your CP-3.



-Ryan

Depends on the filter... actually in my experience most filters are designed for a vacuum or suction placement and since most pumps won't pull as much as they'll push, it is less likely for them to pull dirt through the fliter media as it is to push it through (if the filter becomes partially clogged).



I tend to be concerned about these FASS pumps/filters ever becoming partially plugged because I believe that pump has enough positive displacement to push dirt right throught the filter media. But I am still considering buying one myself.



steved

 

[JCleary]

I tend to be concerned about these FASS pumps/filters ever becoming partially plugged because I believe that pump has enough positive displacement to push dirt right throught the filter media. But I am still considering buying one myself.



steved

Another reason to plumb it through the stock filter canister, then...