Slide in Campers & weight ratings

[Rfearn]

I am really confused. I want to get into the Camper scene and don't know how heavy I can go. I have a 2003 Ram 3500 Quad Cab, long bed with single rear wheels. Dodge gives the truck a GVWR or 9900 pounds yet the axle GAWR are 4750 front and 6150. My math may be a bit rusty but that seems to add up to 10. 900 lb. I want to carry a camper with a GVW of 3200 lb. Am I safe?

 

[RustyJC]

If your owner's manual reads like mine, it says that none of the ratings (GVWR, GCWR or GAWR) can be exceeded in towing or hauling service. The higher sum of the GAWRs just allows you some flexibility in placement of the load (more to the front or to the rear), but it does not mean that you can exceed the GVWR.



Rusty

 

[PC12Driver]

GVWR - truck weight = payload capacity. Your truck probably weighs about 7,000 lbs (a trip to the scales at your local truck stop would tell you for sure), so a rough guess would be a payload of 2,900 lbs. The 3,200lbs camper would put you overweight by itself, not including fuel, luggage, people, etc.



The truck would have no problem carrying that load mechanically, but you'd be at or over the limit for the rear tires. Having a blowout at highway speeds with a top heavy camper would certainly make for a bad day. The company I work for has several one ton srw demo trucks that are always overloaded by about 500 lbs (they didn't get the duallys to keep away from the DOT and having to carry logbooks). Every one of the drivers have experienced at least one rear tire blowout.

 

[TBontrager]

There certainly is a lot of discussion regarding GVWs and slide-in campers. Lots of opinions on air bags vs. add'l helper springs. Seems some folks are determined to abide by the GVW of their trucks and get a "lite" camper. Some say that an (officially) overloaded truck drives okay. I am seriously considering selling my 2500 short bed and getting a new CTD600 3500 SRW long bed and putting in a S&S 11DB camper (3115 lbs empty). That's without AC, generator, water, stuff, etc. Obviously this will weight a whole lot more when loaded. According to the specs, there is no way I can carry this type of load without the DRW option!



I have pulled trailers, but never really loaded the bed of my truck. I don't want to make a $35K mistake. Based on my current knowledge, I'm considering the truck and camper stated above with torklift tiedowns.



Am I concerned about nothing, or am I dreaming about safely hauling this load?



Thanks for the opinions.



Tim

 

[RMcCulloch]

You're dreaming.



The reason that a DRW will have a higher GVWR than a SRW can be expressed in one word: tires.



The GAWR is higher than the total of the load ratings for the tires so that the first thing to fail will be those round rubber thingees that keep the wheels from being ground off by the concrete. After all, DC's warranty would have to pay for replacing the axle but not the tires.



The most weight, including all cargo, suspension mods, airbags, fuel tanks, fuel, camper, fishing tackle, dog food, etc. , that can be safely carried on any is the smaller of the GAWR and combined tire load capacities.



The load capacity of the LR-G tires supplied on a 3rd-gen is 3,085 pounds single tire, 2,885 dual tire. That translates to a maximum axle weight of 6,170 pounds for an axle with only 2 tires and 11,540 pounds for an axle with duals.



Bear in mind that this is without any "safety cushion".



Also bear in mind that these numbers are for the ones that came on my truck and that yours may well be different.



If you're planning to haul 3k of camper + additional weight in "goodies" and "stuff" then get the DRW.

 

[jtwcummins]

These ratings have always seemed a little vague to me. My 2500 with the camper package can haul a 3200 lb camper, thats total weight. The GV weight is 8800 lbs and the truck is 7095 lbs. I have been told I can only haul the difference between the 2. Since I ordered my truck I have the windows sticker and all the brochures for a 97. With single e rated rear tires it is rated at 3295 lb payload.

I do know that the ride quality is alot better with about 2000 lbs in the bed. The handling isn't any different, no sway or other stange happenings.



The camper package was dropped, but the camper capacity is still about 3k for 2500. Iwould,however, get the dually for that weight.

 

[VicR]

When I bought my 99, it had a document title "Consumer information Truck-Camper loading" that listed the VIN of my truck and some info on camper loading.



For comparison, mine says: Cargo weight rating - 1560 pounds. Mine is a 2wd quad cab with the camper package and the best its rated for is 1560?



I advise looking for the same sheet in whichever truck you are considering. Mine was printed in Red ink and was in the glove box.



-Vic

 

[TBontrager]

RMcCulloch, your reply makes a lot of sense. The weak and possibly unsafe link appears to be the tires. The DRW option adds a bigger axle, but the key is in the additional tires to handle the weight.



Based on that assumption, could I propose the following argument. On my current truck, I am running Nitto Terra Grapplers on the stock 8" wide 16" rims in size 305/70-16. The max weight rating on these tires is 3525@65 psi. This puts the max load on an axle (from a tire perspective only) of 7000 lbs. This is a higher rating than the stock 17" load range E tires on the '04 truck. I have not done much research yet regarding tire capacities that are available in the 17" size, in fact the Nitto Terra Grappler in the stock 17" size carries only 2535lbs@44psi. Is this the reason a company like Rickson is in business selling 19. 5" tires/wheels? Is there a tire/wheel combination in the 17" rim diameter that affords a significantly higher load rating?



My initial thought was to try to keep with a SRW truck since it would be better for me as a daily driver. Also, I like to do some mild off road driving (without the campter) and the thought of a dually just seems silly to me.



Thanks for the thoughts,



Tim

 

[Mike Ellis]

Tim,



The dual rear wheels do more for you than just the extra load capacity, if you are carrying a camper they offer more stability as well and can be very nice to have in the event of a flat or blowout. If you have the chance to drive a truck with camper on, in both DRW and SRW styles, the difference may surprise you.



With a camper, the center of gravity of the truck can be much higher than with just a loaded bed, and this results in a certain amount of sway going around corners etc. The factory camper package adds a rear stabilizer bar (on the older trucks, at least) which helps significantly, good shocks and air bags can help even more and would be very important on a SRW truck I think. A SRW truck can clearly handle a truck camper, but it should be matched to the load capabilities. Note that with the biggest truck campers (11+ footers) it is not uncommon for people to end up a couple of THOUSAND pounds over GVWR, and that can make for one ugly-handling, white-knuckle driving experience.



My truck handles pretty good with the camper onboard, it is a heavy camper and I am right at GVWR with it loaded aboard per weigh-in on a CAT scale. I could easily be a few hundred pounds over if I throw too much junk in it. With DRWs, I don't notice much sway, the truck handles pretty well overall with the camper on. You definitely know it's on there, but it is not unlike driving a small Class C. The new trucks, with the stiffer and stronger frames, better brakes, and stouter engines, should be awesome with a truck camper!

 

[DPelletier]

Tim,

Been there, done that. I had a '01. 5 2500 with camper package and hauled my 2714 lb camper (loaded, NO water). I also replaced the factory overloads with a custom 5 leaf pack and used Rancho 9000x's on level 9. A 3rd gen 3500 SRW is basically the same deal - not alot more capacity there although you do get 1,100 more pounds of GVWR. My truck handled the weight OK, not great but OK. Personally, I wouldn't go over 3,000 lbs total on a SRW truck, especially with a slide-in due to the high center of gravity.

With the camper your talking about, Truck = 7,000 lbs, camper = 3115 lbs dry + propane, water, gear, food, passengers, etc. etc. means you'll probably be at about 12,000 lbs all loaded up. Too much for a SRW IMHO.

Now, to the tire/stability issue;

- 1) It isn't necessarily about load carrying capacity of the tires, its about stability. With a dually the stability comes from 4 extra sidewalls. Now, I don't know anything about a Nitto Terra Grappler, but sidewall stiffness and max air pressure are the key to stability, NOT load ratings. For example lots of larger load range D tires have the same or higher load ratings than the factory E rated tires, but the max air pressure of the D's at maybe 55 PSI isn't even close to the E's at 80 PSI. Do not make the mistake of using load range D tires with a heavy slide-in.

-2) I'm not aware of a heavier tire in the 17" size. Should you choose to go with the 19. 5' tires/wheels you can significantly increase your stability and capacity. Whether or not two 19. 5" load range G tires are as stable as four 17" load range E's is open for arguement, but IMO, they go a long way to addressing the SRW safety/stability issue.



If you already had the truck, the 19. 5's might be the way to go but if it was me, I'd buy the DRW and be legal and also save the $3,000 - 4,000 that it costs for 19. 5's.



Dave

 

[Bill Stockard]

I haven’t weighed my current truck and camper. Here’re the weights on my previously owned truck-camper combination:



Truck: 2000 Dodge 3500 DRW, CTD, 6-speed, SLT+ Quad Cab, 10,500 GVWR

Camper: 2001 Lance 1140, 11’6”, with all options including Generator and A/C



Gross Vehicle Weight on the Scales: 11,320 lbs with 4,280 lbs on the Front Axle



The truck handled the load fine even in crosswinds and when passed by trucks. We traveled thousands of miles without a problem. I would recommend a dual rear wheel truck. The difference in handling and control between the single rear wheel and dual rear wheel truck is like night and day! At one time I owned a Lance 9’ camper on a single rear wheel truck and sold both. It was all over the highway in strong crosswinds. Been there and done that… never again!



Bill

 

[TBontrager]

I value your advice and I'll definitely consider the DRW truck. It seems I don't gain much GVW rating switching from my current 2500 w/camper package up to the new SRW 3500 (1000lbs). Also, there is no sense in buying a SRW truck if experience with heavy slide-ins suggest otherwise. Thank you for weighing in on the topic. (pun intended).



Okay, just for entertainment purposes, humor me on this one. Is anyone familiar with Earthroamer?



http://www.earthroamer.com



His current truck is an F450/F550-based truck. The interesting thing is that he converted this cab/chassis DRW vehicle to a SRW off-roader. The truck is using 37 x 12. 5-17 Goodyear MT/R tires on 17 inch steel rims. This tire has a 4080lb. rating.



Anyone have an idea if a new Dodge CTD 3500 DRW could be converted in a similar fashion and be done in a way to maintain GVW and stability to haul a big slide-in camper?



Thanks for your opinions.



Tim

 

[Mike Ellis]

I think you could do the same thing pretty easily, however you might be better off with one of the Dodge cab/chassis setups than a regular 3500. Even then, the GVWR is not up to the levels of the F550 etc.



Earthroamer used to write about his adventures in the TDR all the time, originally he had a Dodge CTD platform. His approach to the trekking camper cost some huge $$$, not sure how practical it is for the average driver. What always puzzled me, was how much trouble he seemed to have with his custom built setup while touring places that "old fashioned" trucks and campers had trod. He collapsed the bed supports on his Dodge once, for example, while travelling IIRC on roads in Baja.



I have always wondered if a guy could buy a Dodge CTD 4x4, put in some reasonable suspension upgrades, slap on a Bigfoot 1500 series camper and come awful close to the agility of the old Earthroamer type vehicle. The 1500 is a smallish version of their 2500 series, apparently usable on a half-ton truck. On a 2500 or 3500 SRW, it would be a pretty sweet ride if you could deal with the smallish interior. Actually a very nice little camper, and you just load and go when needed rather than a special-built fulltime setup like Earthroamer. Pretty rugged too.



Before Earthroamer, there were a lot of guys who took their Alaskan campers places that would make the average driver

 

[DPelletier]

Yep, it could be done and you would maintain your 12,000 lbs GVWR. As long as you make sure you're under the max load rating for the tires and wheels, you're good to go... ..... legally. In reality I don't think you'd have the stability of a DRW truck. With 19. 5" wheels and commercial load range G or H tires, you'd be close to DRW stability, but not with big azz offroad tires like the MTR's you mentioned! It's funny because the same thing that prevents the 2500 or 3500 SRW from being uprated to 12,000 lbs GVWR also prevents the DRW from being derated if switched over to SRW's. In reality both the DRW and SRW 3500's are virtually the same truck except for the training wheels and related adaptors and hardware.

FWIW, Dodge doesn't make 3rd gen chassis cab, at least not yet.

But I do see where you're going with all this now my advice is to really figure out how you're going to use your truck/camper. I don't think you'll match the highway, hi-speed stability of the dually in any SRW truck. I do go off-road with mine, but only to a minor degree (dirt logging roads and forest service campgrounds) Truth is that I could probably even forgo 4x4 99% of the time.

Now, if I was going to build a real offroad camping truck (without spending an Earthroamer amount of $ ) I would probably do just what Mike suggested and get a 3500 SRW LB 4x4 and use a 1500 series Bigfoot 9. 5. This camper weighs about 2,000 lbs dry and is a nice unit. The center of gravity and overall height is about 8" lower than my 2500 series because of the basement.

I think a 4,000 or 5,000 lb camper is just too much to go offroad with anyway and too much for a SRW truck, even a F550 with its duallies ripped off!



Cheers

Dave

 

[DPelletier]

Oh yeah,

Get the T-Rex suspension, MTR's, lockers, some decent offroad bumpers, a winch and some lighting. Hey, and how about a custom utility bed with a built in generator and extra fuel tank.

This sounds like fun!



Dave