Smaller turbo housing bad?

[Crash_AF]

I took my truck to Reliance Truck and Auto in Denver yesterday to have my injector pump replaced and was discussing mods with the Dodge 'Guru' there.

He told me that he wouldn't even think about putting a 16cm housing on my 1st gen because it won't do anything but increase EGTs while I'm towing. He also said that didn't recommend changing the injectors out on it.

I was considering ordering a set of 300 HP injectors and 16cm housing from Big Don as soon as I get my check from the IRS, but I want to make sure I'm not going to regret the expense...

Please help shed some light on the subject and educate me #ad
...

I pull a 43' 3 car double axle G/N with this rig.

Thanks,
Joe

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Joe Hinson, 93 D-350
Stock, 3in straight pipe - For now


[This message has been edited by Crash_AF (edited 04-11-2001). ]

 

[drives mopars]

i have banks turbo, i think its 16
i run pw injectors noticed 5 psi more boost i get 28 psi
i know on 2 nd gen bigger is better
not sure on this what year depends if
intercooler or not

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1993 w350 ex cab, banks,nv 4500 in
open exaust, pw Injectors are in. Big rig flaps,tach in,. Its loud and goes ok, for a 93,Ham radio Call KK6dm
has ability to communicate any where in the world. Headliner shelf
5 antenna's

 

[Crash_AF]

Yes, it is intercooled. It also has the Getrag 5 speed.

Later,
Joe


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Joe Hinson, 93 D-350
Stock, 3in straight pipe - For now

 

[boatpuller]

Joe,
Sounds like the "Dodge 'Guru'" you talked to believes in keeping the engine stock, if you really want to pull that trailer of yours get some gauges, smaller turbo hsing, injectors, and don't forget the restrictions in the stock exhaust and put the hammer down, but when you do HANG ON the injectors make the most difference, the smaller housing just seems to make boost earlier so if you can only afford one or the other the injectors are the best bang for your$$$ but you need free flowing exhaust to use the fuel.
Happy Rammin,
Caleb


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1993 LE W250 4x4 CC,Auto,3. 5's,LS. . Diamondplate,PowerWagon injectors,K&N,Egt,Boost,trans temp VDO Vision series, BD 3 1/2" Exhaust, 16cm housing,Mag Hytec Diff+ Trans pans,Transgo TFOD shift kit,Roadmaster Active Suspension.

Caleb Reese (per forum guidelines)

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

I have not noticed any change other than for the better with my 16cm housing. I have not had any real heavy hauling since the change but I have pulled some long grades and my temps max's out about 800*F now instead of 850*F before. (Post turbo)
Spool-up is quicker and I did see a bit more overall boost although not as much as I had hoped for. Injectors were the most improvement overall I think. I went with the BD 180HP marine appl.

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93. 5 D250 4X4,HD Spring Pkg, Rancho 7000's, Rear Swaybar,Dual Shock Front Stabilizer,BD Injectors,31/2" Mandrel bent exhaust,16cm 'Hot End',Modest Pump Tweaks/Timed,K&N Air,Isspro Pyro,Tach,transmission Temp,Auto Meter Oil Filled Boost Ga. , 3:54's, 4 Speed Auto, Clubcab, Aftermarket Reclining Buckets w/ctr Drop Down seat/console, Black over Silver, 21psi,285-65R-16's,American Racing Clear Coat Mags, Amsoil 15W-40HD Marine,12,000 lb. Warn Winch,KC Spots. 101,300 Kms (63,000 mi's).

 

[Shrimpy]

Joe, you may not notice that much difference with the 16 cm housing because your stock set up is a 18. 5 cm I believe. Us guys with 92's had 21. 5 cm housings stock so dropping to the 16 REALLY wakes our trucks up. You may want to hold off on the housing and go with the injectors. As Caleb said, you will just want to hold on because this will really wake it up. Be sure to make sure you keep a clean air filter in because you will be pulling a lot more air. The K&N is nice but that is a personal decision.

Also remember that the Injectors may mean not having to turn your pump up. I personally do not have mine turned up, but have read many times that the less you monkey with the fuel delivery (turning pump up) the longer life for the pump. I know some guys have absolutely no problems with their pumps being turned up, but you sound like you do some heavy duty pulling. The more longevity you can look forward too if it stays at stock setting and increase the fuel flow with injectors. Several reliable sources have said that these pumps on our trucks are pushing all they can and remain dependable for any length of time. I have 235,000+ on mine and it runs great. I have the PW injectors and am pleased as punch. Remember that more fuel without a corresponding amount of air will lead to super high EGT's and possibly trouble if you tow heavy like you seem to. Good luck.

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92 Ext. Cab, Auto trans. , 3. 54 Non-LS, Isspro Tach, 16 cm housing, PW injectors, no name 3 Gauge cluster, 230,000+ miles, straight pipe, old and abused but still running strong!!!!

 

[R.E. Miller]

FWIW,
I have a 92' that weighs 9000lbs unloaded, that I tow with and haul loads that make my gvwr add-up to around 12000lbs at times, not the smartest thing I've done, but it works none the less. This truck has the 16cm^2 housing and that is it, it can pull about 15psi boost, and will reach, but not exceed 1000 degrees pre turbo.

These mods do not worry me a bit, understand the limitations of the engine, and adapt your driving style to follow your guages. The added power actually makes my truck safer IMO, and makes the day easyer.

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1992 W-350 Club Cab Dually 3. 5" Jardine, Swiss cheese air box
1992 W-350 8' contractors dump with 3. 5"BD exhaust, 16cm^2 housing, DI pyro&boost
Russell

 

[Crash_AF]

Ok,well I have a 3 inch straight pipe already so exhaust has been taken care of, I bought a Isspro pyro gauge for it already and will get the boost gauge with the turbo housing and Reliance is turning the pump up 20% when they install it.

BTW, he's not opposed to BOMBing since his personal truck is a 2001 Q/C with an HX-40 and other mods... but I didn't understand his logic about not wanting to put a 16cm on mine... #ad


So I take it that the general consensus is that I should go ahead and order the injectors and housing from Big Don and BOMB the he!! out of it? #ad


Later,
Joe


------------------
Joe Hinson, 93 D-350
Stock, 3in straight pipe - For now

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

I agree with one of the notes above. My stock housing was an 18. 5cm and I changed to the 16cm. It DID make a difference in spool-up, and it did get me a pound or two more boost but in general I found the difference a little to subtle. If I do it again (and I likely will) I'd go with the 14cm wastegated housing. From what I've read here it should be ok unless you are REALLY going to Bomb the daylights outta yer truck, then bigger is better.
FWIW.

 

[Cummnzpowr]

Crash:
If you can afford it go with maybe a 14cm2 wastegated housing along with maybe the Power Wagon injectors... i think a set of Lucas's {300 hp marine} would cause too much heat for towing, because that 16cm housing won't really do anything special for you... and that's BS if poeple think they'll be making 300 ponies from them anyway. . not at rear wheels were it counts.

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Greg's 1993 D250 4x2. . 5-speed. . extended cab. . longbed. . bright white. . tinted windows. . 4-inch stack through bed. . K&N air filter. . holes in air box. . Piers' "tweak inductioned fuel pump"... . PW injectors... 12CM housing... Isspro Pyro &Boost guages. . "The{smoking}Phantom"

 

[Deezul1]

My friend Cody has a 12cm on his 1st gen and I believe Powerwagon injectors and has not had egt problems but also has not towed. His screen name is Needmopower, e mail him about his mods we have played with it a bit and it runs real good.
Good Luck

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96 SLT Laramie CC 5spd, 3. 54, no muff, no cat, 5"turn down tip. (its for sale)
. Member NRA/USPSA

 

[Stab]

You will notice a differance with the 16cm2 over even the 18cm2 housing. Climbing out of some of those Rocky Mountain passes at slow speed is just what the 16cm2 is best at! Been there done that. If the exhaust is straight piped like yours is, you will not have to worry about high EGTs. Unless you go to massive fuel delivery. The 16cm2 and the PW injecters are what you need for good moderate performance upgrades. There are bigger and there are better, but for easy on the fuel pump and easy on the pocket book the above upgrade works well in over all performance and mpg.

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Owner: Stabco Repower- -- email address removed -- The turbo housing guys. '89, CC, SB, 5sp, 3. 54, 16cm2 housing, intercooled, maxed fuel, KN, Banks exh w/muffler, Horton fan clutch, Autometer liquid filled gauges, Accessory tach option, 100% Dyna-Mat, Borgeson steering shaft, Firestone air bags, Chrysler V-twin air comp, 2. 5" lift, Rancho Shocks, Alcoa LTS wheels (recalled), BFG 255/85/R16 MTs (33. 3")

 

[KEENO]

Hey Crash!

My reply might not be the exact advice your looking for but a few of us have been running the 12cm2 on First Gen's w/ great results & No EGT problems. I was apprehensive at first when Ted Jannetty mentioned that the 12's really wake up our trucks, but I went ahead and found a used one (cheap) and installed it in place of my Banks "Big Head" 14cm2 (expensive). I've never wanted to go back to the 14cm2 or the 16cm2 that's on my girlfriend's First Generation truck.

Of course, this is all personal preferences and driving style but the 12cm2 provide even quicker spool up which means increased low end torque for towing ease (no lag). The only consideration when running the 12's or 14's is that the turbo downpipe must be shortened 1. 5" (or purchase new shortened pipe)to accomodate the wastegate housing.

Ted mentioned that you have to dump a 'boat load' of fuel thru a 12 before you run into High EGT temps. The 12 is his housing of choice, while Joe Donnelly prefers the 16 & up.

If you're curious do a 'search' for the 12cm2 in the First Gen forum or give Ted Jannetty a ring and ask his advice. The 12's can be found cheaply on the site if you wish to experiment a bit. I now have most flavors (12's, 14, 16 & 21. 5) sitting on my shelf from the swapping fun I've had before finally arriving at the 12.

Just my angle... ...

Keeno

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1992 W250 5spd. 3. 54 gears, LSD, JRE enhanced VE Injector Pump, BD High Output Injectors, 12cm2 wastegated housing, 3 1/2" JRE modified Banks exhaust/Walker muffler, pyro/boost gages, K&N, South Bend Clutch, Skyjacker 2 1/2" front suspension lift to clear 305/70R/16 Goodyear MT's, Mag-Hytec, Amsoil, Rhino liner, Fully Chrominated Aluminum Aftermarket Accessory T-handle Shift Knob

 

[R.E. Miller]

KEENO,
Just wondering what your egt's are when floorboarded and under load #ad
I need to change the housing on my club cab, first i was sold on the 16cm, then I was thinking about the 14cm, and now, hmmmm #ad
.

I tow a fair amount, and can't have egt probs, and the reason I ask is that my dump truck has the 16, and loaded and floored, with out fuel changes, I get to 1000 max temp, I just wonder what you see, also, what boost do you get?
Thanks for the bomb-ad-vice

------------------
1992 W-350 Club Cab Dually 3. 5" Jardine, Swiss cheese air box
1992 W-350 8' contractors dump with 3. 5"BD exhaust, 16cm^2 housing, DI pyro&boost
Russell

 

[KEENO]

Hey Russell!

My EGT's w/ the 12cm2 are 1050 - 1100 degrees foot on the floor, haulin' the mail @ 30 - 31 PSI boost (5th gear/unloaded). I wish I could correctly reply w/ a 'loaded' EGT but my truck really never sees much beyond a Jeep on a car trailer for hauling purposes.

Please check out "Should I Install a 12cm Housing" & "12cm2 Installed - Smiles for Keeno" from the 'search' function. "Thunderrolls" mentions that he hauls a 13,000# trailer with his 12cm2 First Gen and absolutely loves the power w/ NO EGT troubles. I also know that Ted Jannetty prefers the 12's for dragging his drag racing trailer to the track on a P7100 equipped 12 valve.

With our somewhat fueling limited VE injector pumps, I believe you would have to have the 'Max' fuel delivery screw bottomed out to have an EGT problem. However, I do recall one concern of this... Not mentioning any names (not me!).

Check out the past post on this subject and make your pwn decisions. The 12's are available from some of our P7100 brothers that have went BIG for cheap ($50 - $85 or better)!

Keeno



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1992 W250 5spd. 3. 54 gears, LSD, JRE enhanced VE Injector Pump, BD High Output Injectors, 12cm2 wastegated housing, 3 1/2" JRE modified Banks exhaust/Walker muffler, pyro/boost gages, K&N, South Bend Clutch, Skyjacker 2 1/2" front suspension lift & Bushwacker 'cut out' Flares to clear 315/75R/16 BFG AT KO's, Mag-Hytec, Amsoil, Rhino liner, Fully Chrominated Aluminum Aftermarket Accessory T-handle Shift Knob

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

WELL, *I* am in the market for a 14cm jobbie for my early '91, if anyone has moved up to a different size and wants to sell their old one...

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http://community. webshots.com/user/davison71 Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... Tweaked pump, upgraded radiator... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...

"Dura" WHAT? NOW I know where all those recycled beer cans go...

 

[R.E. Miller]

Keeno,
That's it, you guys did it to me, soon as I get some dinero it's 12cm2 time, but I need gauges too. 30psi boost seems like a lot, don't want to hurt my 157,000 mile rig oh well #ad

 

[BillyKidd]

Crash_AF: I"ll add my 2 cents worth... . I went from stock to mods listed in Signature, spread out over several months. The 3 1/2" exhaust and low restiction muffler helped power and fuel economy some. Then I put in the "PW" injectors and changed to 14cm2 turbo. This made the "REAL" difference! More power & quicker(no lag). More boost(25 lbs. ) and lower EGT"s. Pump is turned up maybe 10%(fuel screw), and timing is set at 1. 75. Towing a 21" Travel Trailer up long 5% grade in Indio, Ca. (90 degrees outside air temp)maxed EGT"s at 1000(pre-turbo). IMHO the 14cm2 is the best all-around as you get quick spool up and with bigger injectors no EGT problems. I think the injectors are the secret here! Do both, not one or the other. Injectors first if you have to do one at a time. FYI

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93,CC,4X4,LE,Auto/3. 54. Banks intercooler/exhaust,Gauges(Pyro/Boost/Tach. ),K&N,"PW" injectors, 14cm2 wastegated turbo, "timed" pump, CUMMINS CHROME engine kit,Walker "flow-thru" muffler,Emerald Grn. w/ SS running board,Grizzly Grill Guard.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Then I put in the "PW" injectors and changed to 14cm2 turbo. This made the "REAL" difference! More power & quicker(no lag). More boost(25 lbs. ) and lower EGT"s. "


HMMmmm - *I* woulda thought you would get considerably closer to 30 lbs. boost with that 14cm setup, especially with the injector upgrade! This really interests me, since I amd strongly considering doing the same as you, but am aiming at more boost than what you ended up with - shucks, I get about 20 lbs. boost NOW with the STOCK turbo and injectors - and EGT runs well under 1200 pulling a load up a 7% or better grade...

I wonder what OTHER users are getting in terms of max boost with the 14cm and larger injector setup? Do I need the 12cm job instead?

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http://community. webshots.com/user/davison71 Early '91 250, 727 AT, 307 rear... Banks Stinger exhaust, intercooler... US Gear OD... Tweaked pump, upgraded radiator... MORE than a match for every new PS Ford encountered so far...

"Dura" WHAT? NOW I know where all those recycled beer cans go...

 

[R.E. Miller]

Yeah, I feel a bit confused here too, before you all start screaming "Use the search" just a quick one. I thought that the more fuel you throw at situation under the hood, the hotter the EGT's are, so if you up-size the injectors and change the turbo housing, how can the EGT's run cooler? I understand the other mods that you guys have done i. e. exhaust etc. but this is confusing to a public school graduate #ad