Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Smarty & Hot Juice

[jrhodes]

Currently running Marco's ECM and a Juice W/ Attitude that has been unlocked to have access to level 6. Having problems with the pre-set software on Marco's ECM and level 6 on the Edge. Levels 1-5 work fine. I purchased a Smarty Controller last week to re-program the ECM to level 8 to take out the timing of the ECM. I thought this would solve the level 6 problem and everything would be good, but I was wrong. The problem, I'm having is when the computer is set on level 6, and you start accelerating through the gears, by the time your in third or fourth and the turbo is beginning to spool and I keep pressing on the accelerator slowly, the power for some reason falls off or decreases. If you back off the pedal, the power returns. If you then begin to press down on the pedal again, the power falls off again and back on again when you let off the pedal. It's like past a certain point on pressing down on the go pedal, the power cuts out and then back on again when you let off the pedal. I'm at a loss on this. There has got to be somebody out there that has a Hot juice and the smarty controller for changing the ECM settings. Is anybody having problems on level six after chaing thier ECM's from a stock setting to a Catcher setting?????? Sorry about the long question.

 

[drury]

It sounds like you are getting EGT or boost limited. Could that be the problem? I don't see any intake modifications in your signature, and I know I get EGT limited on my Hot Juice doing a 0-60.

 

[RHARVEY]

This only does it on level 6 or the Hot Juice... On level 5 it works fine!



Rick

 

[jrhodes]

EGT's and Boost are all in the normal range when this happens. As Rick said, this only happens on level 6. Levels 1-5 operate just as they should.

 

[jrhodes]

Guess I must have one of the rarest trucks out there. Nobody else is running a Juice W/ Attitude and have tweeked their ECM with a Smarty????? Back to the drawing board.

 

[NoSeeUm]

When I first put the TST on my truck the levels 6-9 had little SOP difference in feel over level 5. I know that Hp is deceptive, but thats what I thought at the time. The engine seemed to just make more noise at a different tonal quality but no more power that I could notice.



After making my fuel system mod's where I could keep fuel supply pressure above 4 psi at WOT. The fueling response of the truck changed. Now I feel like levels 6-9 add a noticeable amount of power. Especially when I do level 5 to level 9 runs back to back.



Jim

 

[RGutierrez]

I also have the Juice with Attitude Hot version. Have you raised your alarm points? What's your EGT's? Is your Attitude audible alarming at the same time when it defuels? This is very interesting to me that you made this stack because I've been wanting to do the exact same thing. I could learn from you. Have you dynoed the truck with the smarty? How does the combination run on Juice level 5 and smarty compared to the Juice alone? I dynoed my truck on all levels of the Juice and I actually made more torque on level 5 than on level 6 and I only made like 2 horsepower more on level 6. I called Edge and they said level 6 begins the fueling earlier in the rpm range besides that, level 5 and level 6 were the same. What I was after with the Smarty was more RPM. Did you gain any RPM with the Smarty?



Mundo

 

[drury]

If you're not being EGT or Boost limited, then you're probably running the fuel rail dry. Time to think about fueling upgrades.

 

[Jong]

No fuel rail on a VP44 injected 24 valve... . :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[drury]

My Bad!

 

[KKunz]

mine does the same hot juice and smarty. only does it on level 6 you are about the 3rd guy I know of with this problem hopefully we will figure it out...

Kris

 

[TAbbott]

It sounds to me like it might be a timing issue. At full throttle, the module probably retards the timing and when you begin to back out of it, the advance may be coming back in and that's when you feel the power surge. My $. 02.

 

[RConner]

Mine did the same thing, level 6 was unusable with the smarty. I would get into it, the motor would bog, no power, let off the pedal, and boom explosion of power, like you were hitting it with a 200 shot of nitrous. My conclusion was that it was just to much fuel for my little turbo set up and when I let out of it all that fuel would finially ignight and bam. I wish we could figure this out?

 

[jrhodes]

R. Gutierrez: Yes, alarm points have been raised. When it cuts out on level 6, there are no alarma sounding. This problem accurs arount 1800 rpm's. I have not dynoed the truck with this combination. Level 1-5 on the Edge and the Smarty set on level 8 runs great. Level 6 is where the problems start. You are correct, the only difference between level 5 & 6 is 6 puts more fuel on the bottom end and holds it longer at the top end. I did not gain any more rpm's with the Smarty that I noticed.



KKunz: Glad to hear I'm not the only one out there with this problem. At leat there is somebody out there who knoes what I'm talking about.



Tabbott: I changed the Smarty to Level 8 which still gives you the full Catcher software and no timing advances and the problem still exists.



RConner: I dont think its the turbo size. Your not getting anymore fuel from level 5 to level 6. Your getting the same amount in 5 & 6, level 6 just gives it to you sonner than level 5.



For now, I dont run on level 6 anymore. I called Edge last week about this problem, and they informed me that they have never come across this problem before. The tech said he would speak to 'Tracy' who is the developer of this module and get back to me in 30 minutes. That was Monday, November 20, 2006. I'm still waiting for that return call!!!!!!!!!! This is the longest 30 minutes of my life. Feels like a week has gone by. Clocks at Edge must run really really really slow????????

 

[TAbbott]

"I changed the Smarty to Level 8 which still gives you the full Catcher software and no timing advances and the problem still exists. "



The reason I think it may be timing is that my understanding of all the downloaders is that they still use the main engine ecm as the basis of their operation. Even stock, my '06 truck will accelerate harder with the throttle pedal just up from the floor than it will if it is on the floor. I can floor it and let it pull in 6th gear and then lift just a little and feel it build more power when I lift. I attribute that to a function in the ecm that when it reads 100% on the TPS (Throttle position sensor) that it will only let the timing advance so far and when that TPS number dropps slightly that it lets the timing advance further. I could be wrong but it just feels like more timing to me.



If that's true, then I imagine that the tuning boxes still access that part of the ecm's programming for safety reasons (pressure spikes) and when it occurs it probably feels even more pronounced due to the availability of a significantly greater volume of power producing fuel to burn. Also, I don't think that the even numbered Smarty programs would defeat the variable timing already existant in the ecm --- they just wouldn't add any additional timing to what was already there, whereas the odd-numbered programs would add timing on top of the stock levels, probably a percentage increase accross the board that would make the timing advance that the stock ecm provided at less than 100% TPS even more pronounced.



I'd try setting all of your electronics back as close to stock as possible and see if you don't feel the same power surge to a lesser degree.



The reason I don't think it's a lack of fuel is that low fuel pressure will cause the sensation of a miss, which you don't indicate you have. This is because the upstream injectors will get nearly full fueling while the downstream ones will be starved when a low fuel situation is first encountered.