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Smoke & your 6.7L

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"The environment", as usually thought of by those interested in improving/protecting it, does not include "fuel economy",... although you seem to think that is an essential ingredient.



Without considering all the associated complexities;

Whether vehicles get 1 mpg or 100mpg has no effect on the environment, if those vehicles are smokeless, and if by smokeless you mean harmful-emissions-free (and if we ignore vehicle production enviro-costs).



Fuel economy is a measure of convenience to humans, ... not of environmental health.



If this is truly your point of view, then you have just displayed your complete ignorance of what it actually takes to provide you with diesel fuel, from underground to the truck stop, to keep your favorite vehicle running.



But then, like the EPA, you're only concerned with what comes out of the tailpipe and none of the side effects, right?
 
Say what?

If this is truly your point of view, then you have just displayed your complete ignorance of what it actually takes to provide you with diesel fuel, from underground to the truck stop, to keep your favorite vehicle running.



But then, like the EPA, you're only concerned with what comes out of the tailpipe and none of the side effects, right?



So "Without considering all the associated complexities... " went over your head?



I want to be reasonable. I shouldn't expect anyone to address a point they didn't get in the first place.



Aside from some discussion of name-calling ("Ignorant!" and such), the issue in my post was whether fuel-economy itself does/does-not indicate environmental benefit.



But if you'd like to expand on all the steps that go into making fuel available, help yourself. I'm sure you agree that educating someone is better than only telling them that they're ignorant. (But harder, maybe, ... and not as much fun, huh? ;)



It's kinda like the "side effects" thing. To find out whether I'm concerned about them, you'd have to tell me just what you mean,... instead of making a vague reference. Harder again, I know.



We should probably skip one another's posts.



Works for me.
 
Speaking of tomato flats... I was on the coast of NC about 8 years ago duck hunting and we trapped a whole boat load of big blue crabs. When we took them back to the H. I. where we were staying a couple of old black women came out to the truck with the old slatted boxes they put cabbages and veggies in to see if we would give them some crabs. That was a funny site. . to big black old women walking off with 2 slatted veggie boxes with crab legs stickin' out everywhere.



CUMMINZ:D
 
yall need to lay off of the HATER-AID.

Wolfy, seems like where ever you post your . 02 everything seems to liven up a bit. makes for some good reading!!
 
Speaking of tomato flats... I was on the coast of NC about 8 years ago duck hunting and we trapped a whole boat load of big blue crabs. When we took them back to the H. I. where we were staying a couple of old black women came out to the truck with the old slatted boxes they put cabbages and veggies in to see if we would give them some crabs. That was a funny site. . to big black old women walking off with 2 slatted veggie boxes with crab legs stickin' out everywhere.



CUMMINZ:D



Good story!



Cumminz, is it still truck-related if we drive our big Rams down memory lane?



Now you got me 'memberin' ;)



Used to take a bunch of chicken necks(cheap!),... tie each one on a long string, and throw 'em in the waterway. Tie the string to a bush or whatever spaced a ways along the bank, and then return with a dip net, working our way down the line.



If the string looked tight, there was a blue crab tryin' to make off with the bait,... and he'd most often hang on till you pulled him right up to dipping depth. Got bunches of 'em.



Yum!(Same for the dived-up Stone crabs with the massive claws)



That was back in Florida.



Now I've been diagonaled across the country for 30 years or so (Oregon) and the crabs are different,... Dungeness crabs and the big Kings from Alaska.



But the Yum is the same! :)



We pick the King crab packages with the legs (not claws) that weigh 1/4 lb. per leg or more, when the store has a sale, ... and in the freezer they go, as many as the budget will allow.



Hard to beat!



Da*n, ... now I gotta go out to the freezer in the barn!
 
... . Wow... .



Yeah.



[Suggestion (NOT directed to MCummings):



Please (Aren't I polite?)do not "skim" this post and then start name-calling at high volume. It is written for thoughtful readers. ]



Let's remember the thread title -- "Smoke & your 6. 7L".



We'll get back to it.



But first a bit about those elements associated with fuel consumption of which I am supposedly completely "ignorant": There is a nursery rhyme called "The House that Jack Built", I believe, which breaks down the building of Jack's house into components. In the same way, we can start wherever we choose, and begin compiling environmental costs associated with fuel production and delivery to the truck stop, ... thence to our tanks, ... thence to our engine.



Iron ore is dug/smelted to make steel for a chair frame, a sheep is raised and sheared for some wool (or some oil is pumped from underground for synthetic fabric), a chair factory is built(easier said than done), and its product is transported to an office in which a mechanical engineer (with a secondary degree in metallurgy) works. After driving to work in his polluting vehicle, with its own production history, he then sits on the fabric covered seat of the chair, leans over a drawing-board (or computer) with ITS own production history, and begins to design the drill bit to be used on the next-generation of oil-well drilling rigs.

... and so it begins.



We could continue this detailed envisioning ad-nauseam, noting drilling sludge and run-off at the well-site, oil spills, tanker-truck emissions during transport, etc. (don't forget the particles of rubber tires ground off on the highway), until we end up with a pump attendant(in some states) who smokes cigarettes on his breaks,... adding some more pollution to his lungs (We'll help pay his hospital costs) as well as the atmosphere. The last item is a "fuel" cost because the pump-jockey only started smoking because his job is so da*ned boring,... and because he is not-allowed to smoke near the pumps,... thus a forbidden-fruit appeal. ;)



All of this to give us fuel to feed our "favorite truck".



All contributing to the enviro-costs of fuel usage



Yes, but, ... beside-the-point of the thread.



Beside the point because: That oil WILL be pumped/delivered, until it is gone, no matter how much-or-little ANY one of us uses, ... because ALL of us will use ALL of it, ... every last drop.



All-of-us includes, for example, the Chinese, who are just starting to roll, so to speak, and as the whole world "progresses" to anything like the U. S. level of consumption, the inescapable costs of fuel production/delivery (both enviro and other costs) WILL be paid by everyone.



So, ... since some or most these costs are unavoidable (or at least unlikely to BE avoided), we might look at some that are not unavoidable.



We'll look at our end of the story, ... the "use" end.



Which leads us back to the thread title - "Smoke & Your 6. 7L".



And the fact that if our individual use, regardless of our individual mpg, does not add ADDITIONAL harmful emissions to the environment,... then the environment has been "protected" (EPA, anyone?) to some degree.



That degree depends upon how many of us "ALL" are using the fuel in vehicles which do-or-do-not "smoke"(emit harmful combustion products).



If the goals include a cleaner environment (Everyone who is for a DIRTIER environment, raise your hand. ;) ), ... It would be nice if we all could/would drive the smoke-free vehicles. But to expect 3rd-World countries(for instance, as another poster has suggested) to leap-frog over all our past excesses, to a position of great regulated-responsibility, while they are still struggling to emulate our pre-eminent example of wasteful consumption, ... is unrealistic.



WE have set the world standard bad-example,... and so it is appropriate that WE should set the good-example standard needed for a better future.



A last ironic observation about mpg:



Poor mileage is best(HUH?), from an environmental standpoint, IF the fuel is used in smoke-free vehicles, for the following reason:



ALL the planet's fuel WILL be used. When all is said and done, if a greater percentage of it has been burned in non-polluting "burners", then there will be a smaller amount of "total" polluting done as a result. (Get out there and DRIVE those 6. 7's! :) )



So, as I said before, ... effective emissions control, which may be inconvenient (costly) for the operator, ... is nevertheless "good" for the environment, ... mpg is a separate issue.



[Thanks to those who have PM'd support. Controversial topics can make for interesting discussion, ... but with such wide readership some ruffled feathers are a "given". ]
 
Wolfy,



You make some valid points, but it sure annoys me that I am having to change my oil twice as often and make 3-4mpg less out of my 07 6. 7L compared to my 04 5. 9L.



Overall I guess the enviroment will be a better place when all the oil is used up and consumers are forced into using biodiesel. So in that way the lower the mpg the better. (except for the $$ its costing me)
 
Mileage is only a separate issue if you assume that we will use every last bit of hydrocarbon that comes from 'natural sources' (oil, natural gas, coal, etc). I think and hope that we will not always use these products. Instead, we may find other sources of energy that have a much shorter life cycle (bio-diesel from algae or energy from cellulose).



If the above does happen, then the less petroleum diesel I burn today, will be less polutants put into our environment and that is a good thing.
 
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