So much for Delvac1 Synthetic

[HEYBOSS]

Not another oil thread but as I was browsing through a TDR issue saw an Amsoil ad that states the Four-Ball Wear test and it shows conventional oils did better than Mobil Synthetic



The smaller the wear scar, the better protection.



Amsoil HDD 5w30 0. 396 wear scar diameter



Delvac 1300 Super 15w40 0. 619



Delo 400 15w40 0. 620



Premium Blue 15w40 0. 625



Rotella T 15w40 0. 636



And at bottom of the list Delvac 1 Synthetic 5w40 at 0. 646



What gives?

 

[illflem]

I would question the validity of the tests. Try doing a Google search for Four-Ball Wear test validity and you will see Amsoil is the about only one touting it.



Was reading a very good article in Machinery Lubrication magazine about the history and evolution of motor oils. Since about 1995 Group III semi-synthetic oils such as Delo synthetic, Valvoline and Castrol have met or exceeded the properties of the full synthetic PAO based Group IV oils such as Amsoil, Royal Purple and Red Line. The production methods are continually evolving to the point where the only "advantage" of PAO based oils will be their high price. Article predicted that many companies producing PAO oils will probably fold. Motor oils made from natural gas are coming whose properties are amazing.

 

[Cooker]

Illflem is right. The 4 ball wear is a very subjective test as to it's interputation. To get an idea of how an oil performs in any given engine, it is much more useful to read some used oil analysis.

Originally posted by illflem

The production methods are continually evolving to the point where the only "advantage" of PAO based oils will be their high price. Article predicted that many companies producing PAO oils will probably fold. Motor oils made from natural gas are coming whose properties are amazing.

I will have to read that article, but I was recently reading an SAE paper which went quite in depth about the differences between the two. The paper used the VW TDI engines as their test mules. In short the article stated that full PAO oils still have areas where they outperform Group III's which still warrant their continued use. Who knows maybe the III's will continue to advance to catch up with PAO's in these areas. Also important to note, Europe has a much greater selection of PAO oils than we do here in the US, and they have more widespread use over there. I find it hard to belive that PAO companies would fold, but who knows?



Unfortunately I don't have a link for the paper. They don't publish them on the web, they make you pay to get a copy.

 

[SMorneau]

illflem, I have never read a trade mag that would say anything that would be interpreted as negative by an advertiser. The statement " met or exceeded the properties" makes no sense to me. It's like the catch phrase, "digital quality", it means nothing.



Also, any test, no matter how appropriate it may be, is not going to be embraced by any major oil company who is not already showing good results with that test. That is not the way corporate America works.



Regards,

Scott

 

[dresslered]

Nobody has ever given me a reasonable explanation as to what part of our engine operates in the same way that the Four-Ball Wear test does? Slick-50 use to claim that it offered great protection when running the engine without oil. I suppose that if I ran without oil on a frequent basis, I might be a believer as well.

 

[illflem]

Scott, I don't feel they were saying anything that could be "interpreted as negative by an advertiser. "

They were just stating facts without making any judgments on any products in particular.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Fred, I ran Delvac 1 AND Amsoil 5W30 in my last truck and the oil sample numbers came back noticeably better for the Delvac 1. But I got my best numbers with the Amsoil 15W40 overall.



Vaughn

 

[HEYBOSS]

Vaughn, I'm a believer that if anyone uses any good oil and frequent oil changes will do fine. I for one use the Rotella with 3000k oil changes, it may be overkill but cheap insurance.

I just found interesting the test done my Amsoil. But like mentioned above some tests/reports can be misleading.

 

[HEYBOSS]

Now I'm even more confused. On this same TDR issue 41 Pg65 they gave us the test results I posted above and on Pg167 they post different results!



Delvac 1 Syn 5w40 has 0. 431 vs pg65 at 0. 646

Rotella at 0. 683 vs 0. 636, this one is close

Delo 400 at 0. 599 vs 0. 620



That's a pretty good difference on the Delvac. The only thing I see different between both reports is the date, one done in Dec. 2000 and the other Jan. 1996. Maybe oil Co. changed their additive packages or something? But interesting enough the Delvac wear scar has increased from 0. 431 in 1996 to 0. 646 in 2000. May be I'm missing something!

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Test Dates

Fred, I noticed that too! When I was oil surfing I downloaded Delvac's specs back in '99, then again in '01. Some of the properties had changed, the Viscosity Index went down and a couple other things like nolack & something else. So it could be it was reformulated and lost some quality.



Vaughn

 

[illflem]

I'll bet the properties changed when the API grade spec changed. Was reading about a guy who had been using the same oil for years in his Detroit, don't recall the brand. Couldn't get the brand he had been using and in the process found that when his oil went to the next grade up it was no longer approved for Detroits.



Moral is just because the API grade goes up it doesn't mean the oil necessarily gets better in all aspects.