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Raced a 6.0 at lunch!

Dead Powerstroke

Not sure which forum this belongs on, but I though all the motorheads on this one would appreciate the following:



Subject: Top Fuel Dragster Trivia



So you want more horsepower? This puts things into perspective...



One TF dragster's 500-inch Hemi makes more horsepower than the first 8 rows at the Daytona 500.



Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1 1/2 gallons of nitro per second, the same rate of fuel consumption as a fully loaded 747 but with 4 times the energy volume.



A stock hemi will not produce enough power to drive the dragster's supercharger.



Even with nearly 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into nearly-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock.



Dual magnetos apply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.



At stoichiometric (exact) 1. 7:1 air/fuel mixture (for nitro), the flame front of nitromethane measures 7050 degrees F.



Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.



Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After ? way, the engine is dieseling from compression - plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in those cylinders and then explodes with a force that can blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half.



To exceed 300 mph in 4. 5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an average of over 4G's. But in reaching 200 mph well before 1/2 track, launch acceleration is closer to 8G's.



If all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs $1000. 00 per second.



Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading this sentence.



Top Fuel Engines turn ONLY 540 revolutions from light to light!



The redline is actually quite high at 9500rpm



The current TF dragster elapsed time record is 4. 477 seconds for the quarter mile (06/02/01 Kenny Bernstein)



Putting all of this in perspective:

You are driving an average Lingenfelter powered "twin-turbo" Corvette. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start, but you still run the 'Vette hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past the dragster at an honest 200 mph. At this moment, the dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your foot hard down, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within seconds the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you passed him.



That, folks, is acceleration.



Think about it, from a standing start, this phenomenal machine has spotted you 200mph and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 feet. Now, tell me about the time you spun the wheels and laid rubber on dry concrete?!
 
Horsepower doesn't make 1/4 mile times or trap speeds, torque does! Horsepower is a number that means nothing to people who know what it stands for. HP sells cars, torque moves mountains.



Read this thread about HP vs. torque taht Hohn posted (not written by him though, I don't believe). HP post It all makes a lot of sense about what really makes power.



Josh
 
I was reading a drag racing website the other day. For the hp argument. The best hp is at high rpms. It allows you to use a better gear multiplier. Like 8 to 1 instead of 6 to 1. So the engine with the most rpms will win. Not neccesarily the one with the most torque.

We can be proud as peaches of our torque but the engine with the least reciprocating mass is the one the responds the quickest. The engine will rev up much faster. That post of hohns alluded to it when talking about transient response recovery time. The weight of the moving parts will affect this greatly. This is why they spend so much money shaving weight off the conrods and pistons.

My theory is that we are in trouble against the new 6. 0. I think its reciprocating mass is prolly about half of what ours is. This is going to be a problem when it comes to racing. It will mean the 5. 9 will handle more torque(notice i didnt say hp). Us bottom feeders who cant afford 600 hp arent going to be able to touch em. The have a gear multiplier advantage. I guess they are good to 3600 in auto form. So thats not too bad. Still gives it a good 6 or 700 rpm lead. This is compound of course. 6 or 7 in each gear. So by third you are trying to catch up to those rpms that you lost your mulitplier. Just a guestimation. It may take a 500 hp cummins to take a 400 hp 6. 0. Its a better race engine. Unless we can free up some rpms such as the drag comp. In other words. Gear multipliers win races.



Dont get mad at me. I love torque. I am a huge torque activist. I think hp is a bs number made up by engineers to sell mustangs. :)

But high rpm torque will win every time. This only applies to racing. low rpm torque is the best daily driver and tow vehicle. Those 6. 0s are going to be sub 12 sec. trucks without pane or n2o in just a few years. Its not a bad tow vehicle either(with the auto). I still will never own anything but I-6s but the mighty cummins has a pretty mean threat with this new engine.



Its too bad the bumbled the launch. That thing is gonna go in the books with the 350 diesel. The sad part is that none of em saw it. I told em a few months ago to watch the lemon sheets cause that engine was a bummer. The 04s seem to be doing ok so far.
 
Originally posted by snowracer69

Horsepower doesn't make 1/4 mile times or trap speeds, torque does! Horsepower is a number that means nothing to people who know what it stands for. HP sells cars, torque moves mountains.



Read this thread about HP vs. torque taht Hohn posted (not written by him though, I don't believe). HP post It all makes a lot of sense about what really makes power.



Josh







That's not entirely accurate and cannot be assumed accross the board in all forms of racing.



My engine is a 358 cubic inch small block chevrolet. It makes peak torque at 7000-7700 rpm(too flat to tell) rpm and peak horsepower at 9300 rpm. My RPM range is 8200 to 9800. Torque has fallen off by 8200 and is way down by the time I'm rolling steam... so what am I using is my car? Am I relying on Torque? I make 3 gear changes and the engine never drops below 8200, nor does it on the launch... .



Not everything is as the magazines say.
 
Originally posted by Big_Daddy_T

I was reading a drag racing website the other day. For the hp argument. The best hp is at high rpms. It allows you to use a better gear multiplier. Like 8 to 1 instead of 6 to 1. So the engine with the most rpms will win. Not neccesarily the one with the most torque.

We can be proud as peaches of our torque but the engine with the least reciprocating mass is the one the responds the quickest. The engine will rev up much faster. That post of hohns alluded to it when talking about transient response recovery time. The weight of the moving parts will affect this greatly. This is why they spend so much money shaving weight off the conrods and pistons.

My theory is that we are in trouble against the new 6. 0. I think its reciprocating mass is prolly about half of what ours is. This is going to be a problem when it comes to racing. It will mean the 5. 9 will handle more torque(notice i didnt say hp). Us bottom feeders who cant afford 600 hp arent going to be able to touch em. The have a gear multiplier advantage. I guess they are good to 3600 in auto form. So thats not too bad. Still gives it a good 6 or 700 rpm lead. This is compound of course. 6 or 7 in each gear. So by third you are trying to catch up to those rpms that you lost your mulitplier. Just a guestimation. It may take a 500 hp cummins to take a 400 hp 6. 0. Its a better race engine. Unless we can free up some rpms such as the drag comp. In other words. Gear multipliers win races.



Dont get mad at me. I love torque. I am a huge torque activist. I think hp is a bs number made up by engineers to sell mustangs. :)

But high rpm torque will win every time. This only applies to racing. low rpm torque is the best daily driver and tow vehicle. Those 6. 0s are going to be sub 12 sec. trucks without pane or n2o in just a few years. Its not a bad tow vehicle either(with the auto). I still will never own anything but I-6s but the mighty cummins has a pretty mean threat with this new engine.



Its too bad the bumbled the launch. That thing is gonna go in the books with the 350 diesel. The sad part is that none of em saw it. I told em a few months ago to watch the lemon sheets cause that engine was a bummer. The 04s seem to be doing ok so far.







Torque IS important, but not all-important. BDT is almost 100% right. The new 6. 0 is a MUCH more appropriate platform off which to build a diesel for acceleration. The lighter internals mean it will rev a lot faster. Plus, it will rev higher so they can take advantage of gear reduction. High RPM torque is a strong component of a great race package. Especially when combined with the ability to CHANGE rpm quickly. This is where the lighter internals really are an advantage, since there's less of an internal flywheel effect for the engine to overcome.



My post linked above has a new reply to it that is long, but worth considering. i would encourage you to read it... .



justin
 
People People People... if torque is what matter than why wouldn't horsepower? Isn't horsepower the rate at which torque is applied?
 
"Isn't horsepower the rate at which torque is applied?"



Yes it is. I don't know anything about racing, but I know a little about physics. Power is the product of torque and speed.



P = T x S



You can apply a billion foot pounds of torque to an object, but if it doesn't move, you are expending zero power.
 
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