Competition Stacking Power Mods?

[alaskax]

Greetings, this is my first post... hope it's in the right place, as this forum is most interesting to me. If not, I'll apologize right now!



I bought my Y2K 2500 4x4 new with a Phase III (as it's called) Dr. Performance upgrade (Kellogg, Idaho). It added a solid 100 hp over stock, and I have been very happy for 3 years with no problems. Of course, now I want more, and since my TC is slipping badly at this point, I'm going to make the big investment of an ATS system package.



My main concern/question is whether I can add a drag comp to my Dr. Performance upgrade. At the time the phase III was installed, I was very inquisitive but kept getting shut out of the information, that is, my questions were never adequately answered! To this day, I'm not sure what the upgrade consisted of exactly. I know the main thing is their twister injector system, but I think the electronic mods were just a reprogramming operation... but again, not sure! I'm pretty sure they did not add any box to the truck- can't find any and they advertize that they don't do that. Nobody has been able to tell me for sure, and calling them has not been helpful. I don't want to get the comp only to find out I can't effectively stack it on top of "what has already been done". To this end, I was hoping someone out there may be able to give me a little insight into this matter... perhaps someone else has gone through this(?). Would I get any benefit out of the comp if my timing, etc. , has already been "optimized"? I have other Q's but I'll stop for now! Thanks!

 

[TxDieselKid]

This should be a great thread....

Chances are that the increase from the kit, is just the injectors. No one that I know of has been able to reprogram an ECM except for one guy oversea's, and they are not for sale yet. I would add the comp box ONLY after you get the transmission installed first. But to each their own.



Andrew

 

[ROADWARRIOR]

I have a Comp Box added to my phase three system. I've had it a year and together they work flawlessly. As far as the ECM being reprogrammed, I think that they do something, cause after I had mine installed and prior to the Comp box, I could hit 35psi with no boost fooler, codes set or defueling. I couldn't agree any more about not being able to get info regarding this. I was told that they set my timing to a max of 17 degrees. I tend to believe they changed it some, cause the engine sounded different. I have been wondering myself if the Comp box can tell that my timing is not stock, and if it adjusts for this, or if my timing may be too far advanced with the box?



Dan

 

[LSMITH]

ALaskax, Dan's truck SCREAMS with the DrP and the comp.



TDK, there are some DrP ECM's out there right now, and they are not vaporware. How they are doing it and how they are getting away with it I don't know. I have heard that it is the same program as the ISB275, but that doesn't make sense to me because the DrP ECM will rev to stock limits and not stop at 2500 or so. Throw out some hooks and see if you can't get one to test

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by LSMITH

Throw out some hooks and see if you can't get one to test

 

[alaskax]

Thanks, this has been very helpful already! Dan, it's great to know someone else has done this, and apparently it has worked well for you. Do you have any idea how much more power you get out of the Comp on top of the Phase III? It's also interesting that you were getting 35 psi after Dr. P. I just recently installed gauges, so didn't know, but it shows 23 psi max, which I thought was about stock. By the way, does the Comp increase boost pressure?



Dr. P advertises improving timing accuracy 20 times, whatever that means. It seems they must do some electronic adjustments, since phase I is programming, phase II is injectors plus programming, and phase III is "better" programming along with the injectors, each with a significant price increase:--) When I bought my truck, they (Dave Smith, can I say that??) let me test a phase II truck, and I could not tell a difference between that and phase III, although there may have been.



Yes, definitely getting the transmission before more power... changed the transmission oil recently and the magnet had so many metal filings attached that it looked like a Christmas wreath



Would love to hear any other particulars or insights about power stacking.

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

Heard of a phase 3 up here. Claimed it was pretty wicked. But they never rode in mine. So its hard to tell. 275 programming is illegal to sell. major fines. I dont think they are closed mouth cause its illegal but instead it because its bullcr@p. They gots a little sued by banks for fibbin a bit about no fuel increase but power gains. Can someone please have a once over and find where he is hiding the EZ Please? I do not believe you will be able to fool the ecm or reprogram it without a fueling box. Or suffering major fines. What boost pressure do the rvs get? I would expect 25 to 28 psi. Same turbo? If one man with stage 3 has 35psi why does another have 23? I would expect that the one getting 35 actually has the stage 3 and the one with 23 does not. If it lasted without a transmission upgrade it is most likely little more that 275s. Just thinkin. I think mine hits 32 without a box.



Sidenote: a man aproached my local diesel guru selling some of P's products. My guru flow tested the injectors and measured the diameter of the holes and showed they were most likely just 275s. Salesman isnt selling the P's products. The doctor of dogs butts tends to be abrasive and non informative. The reason they arent informative is that they arent legit. JMNSHO

 

[Bob4x4]

I was propositioned to become a Dr P installing dealer a while back,they do have the hardware to flash ECM but I was not impressed with the dollar vs power.



Bob

 

[LSMITH]

The Dr P ECM is REAL, it is not standard programming. You pay a lot for the gain, but there is a gain plain and simple. It could simply be a Torqus Maximus program, but there is no way for us to tell without the programs side by side AND the Cummins software.

 

[jwilliams3]

If the Dr. P ECM reflash is real.

Then in my opinion its illegal as hell, and is in violation of copyright laws and Dr. P is playing with matches waiting to get burned.



But like in a post mentioned earlier, its probably BS.



Buyer beware.



--Justin

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by jwilliams3

If the Dr. P ECM reflash is real.

Then in my opinion its illegal as hell, and is in violation of copyright laws and Dr. P is playing with matches waiting to get burned.



--Justin

Justin,

Wouldn't this statement only be true if he was using Cummins or Dodge Software to change the ECM parameters? How can it be illegal to "reflash", or "burn" a new program into the chip in the ECM, and NOT Illegal to do the same thing in a Ford?



Andrew

 

[jwilliams3]

Andrew,



I guess I should have clarified.

I doubt Dr. P has written a program from Scratch to use on the Cummins ECM, if he is using ANY PART of Cummins software without permission to manipulate or change ECM parameters, then he would be in violation of copyright law.



I dont know about the Ford stuff, ask your Boss!



--Justin

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

Not only that it is against the epa regulations. I think it is 25k fine per incidence.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Big_Daddy_T

Not only that it is against the epa regulations. I think it is 25k fine per incidence.

It's illegal to change ECM peramaters? They do it in Ford Mustangs all the time, and Chevy LS1's also, just to a lesser extent.



Justin,

I plan too!!! In the mean time, hook me up a 300hp ISB ECM!!!



Andrew

 

[LSMITH]

Justin, I would suggest that you too get one to test.

 

[jwilliams3]

Think beyond the box guys!

300hp program is old news.

You want control of your ECM for other things



--Justin

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by jwilliams3

You want control of your ECM for other things



--Justin

YOU ARE A TEASE!!!

 

[HVAC]

Ol' Doc was/is reprogramming the ECM. It's easy to do. You need the software which isn't hard to obtain. Then you need a second disc which is the security aspect. It's called the "Key". Very hard to obtain.



Dr. Performance stuff DID work. I was in Kellogg and I've seen trucks dyno 280 with the stage II package. He was the first guy around here that was extrude honing injectors.



He's not nearly as popular now as he was four years ago. Such a tragedy:{

 

[John_P]

I agree with what "jwilliams3", HVAC and a few of the other

members have already said about "Dr. Performance" and

their "programs", injectors etc.



What is funny is that their "motto" used to be: "We will

out push, out pull and out drag any comparably priced

diesel performance package or we will buy their system

for you. And you can take that to the BANKS!"

Really????... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...



Well,... ... ... I wonder what they are saying now since

Banks has taken the Land Speed Record away from them??



As I travel around the country to the various diesel rallies

and get- togethers I have also been in attendance at the

dyno runs at these respective rallies. One thing I have also

noticed is that the "Dr. Performance" enhanced trucks are

NOT the ones laying down the big horespower and torque

numbers!!! Nor are they the ones winning at the drag strips!

I have been told by owners who have the "Dr. Performance"

"packages" that they were very expensive!!



I don't see them advertising anymore like they once did

either. I wonder what has happened???



No offense to anyone who is using their products, just

my observations on the situation.



----------

John_P

 

[alaskax]

Was hoping I could have my understanding validated...



Since my truck with the Dr. P system makes only 22-23 psi max, which is the same as stock (right?), I assume that means the Dr. P system adds NO extra fuel. After all, isn't the basic formula [more fuel = more boost], or is it [more boost = more fuel]?



Since the system gave me 100 hp extra, where does it come from? Power (crudely) comes from [Fuel + Boost], right? Well, if on my otherwise stock truck (turbo), there was no change in max boost, then no extra fuel is being added as well, right? By the way, my truck does not make any smoke (yet ). So, is it from the injectors??



Now for a more "stupid" quetion yet... how do bigger injectors add more power if there is no master command to instruct more fuel to flow to those robust squirters??? I know I'm missing something basic, as there is plenty of testimony to larger injectors adding power.



If someone could answer all this to my satisfaction, I would be elated and impressed!! Oo. Oo.