Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Start.. Die.. No Start

[BLamb]

I have a 2000 3500 five speed. It has about 125,000 miles and the injector pump and lift pump were replaced at about 119,500. I don't drive the truck much and yesterday I tried to use it after it had set (outside) for about three weeks. The last use was a 250 mile road trip empty. It has close to a full tank of fuel. I brought the truck from my son last summer. He had bought it from a friend so we know some of its history. I don't have any extra gauges on it yet.



It was 60 degrees here yesterday but it has been in the teens just a few days ago.



Yesterday when I went to start the truck I had problems.



After waiting for the wait to start light to go out I cranked the truck and as usual it started right off. However it only ran a few seconds then died. I turned it off then back on again and waited for the wait to start light to go off. The truck just cranked and never hit a lick. I repeated this process several times, sometimes cycling the heaters twice. The truck was still cranking over very well but did not even try to start. I gave up and ran my errand in my Magnum.



Several hours later I tried again with no luck. However when I was just about to give up and hook up the block heater I gave it full throttle while cranking and it fired right up and ran fine, so smoke, ran like nothing had happened.



I looked in the owners manual and there was no circumstance described in which you where to give it any throttle when starting.



I have had two other incidences when it has been cool and the truck has died after starting. While a little hard to start these times the truck has started after cranking a few times.



Any idea what is going on here?



Thanks,

Bill Lamb

 

[MCharlebois]

check for codes

marcel

 

[BLamb]

check for codes

marcel

Marcel,



Assuming I did this right there are none. Just got P dONE.



Thanks,

Bill

 

[rkressg]

There could be a small internal fuel leak. This would allow the fuel to drain out of the system, causing the hard start condition above. You cranking like heck just bled the air out.



If you have Fuel Pressure gauges, you will be able to tell if the lift pump is working. You can bump the starter, and the lift pump should cycle for about 20 seconds. Then crank after the LP is done.



Try parking the truck facing down hill. If it fires up, than I bet this is the issue. If you recently changed the Injection Pump, do you know if the injectors were pulled? When the fuel lines were removed, it is possible that the fuel connecting tubes were disturbed, and not everything lined up properly.

 

[BLamb]

There could be a small internal fuel leak. This would allow the fuel to drain out of the system, causing the hard start condition above. You cranking like heck just bled the air out.



If you have Fuel Pressure gauges, you will be able to tell if the lift pump is working. You can bump the starter, and the lift pump should cycle for about 20 seconds. Then crank after the LP is done.



Try parking the truck facing down hill. If it fires up, than I bet this is the issue. If you recently changed the Injection Pump, do you know if the injectors were pulled? When the fuel lines were removed, it is possible that the fuel connecting tubes were disturbed, and not everything lined up properly.

Both the injector pump and the lift pump were changed by a local diesel shop not than many miles ago.



So do you think when I floored the accelerator it rapidly bleed the air and started or was it just a coincidence?



Thanks,

Bill

 

[MCharlebois]

bill

did you wait for the ecu codes ... they will come up after the pcm?

marcel

 

[BLamb]

Marcel,

I waited until the odometer came back. Should I have got a E dONE also?

Thanks,

Bill

 

[MCharlebois]

sounds like you dont have any codes... i will agree and say your getting air in somewhere

marcel

 

[rkressg]

Both the injector pump and the lift pump were changed by a local diesel shop not than many miles ago.



So do you think when I floored the accelerator it rapidly bleed the air and started or was it just a coincidence?



Thanks,

Bill

Flooring it while cranking does nothing. The accelerator does not work (to the best of my knowledge) until the engine is running (although it makes you feel good).



If you have a leak, parking up-hill will accelerate the no-start problem, where as parking facing down-hill will (for the most part) reduce the hard start issue.



If you can track down the issue to this, than you can start to trouble shoot the issue.



You could also have had some residual air in the system from the fuel system change. Drive it some and see if it repeats itself.



-Rich

 

[BLamb]

Rich and Marcel,

The truck is not driven that much so while was not that many miles since the pumps were changed it was quite a while time wise. The truck is parted slightly uphill. In thinking back I think have only had this problem with it stalling when the truck has not been used for a while. A small air leak is sounding very plausible and I guess the cold weather could open the leak up just a little more.



Thanks,

Bill

 

[DMendoza]

I'm having the same problem, normally on days below 60 degrees, but today at 72 degrees, it did it again. Starts up fine, runs for 2-3 seconds, cuts off, then long cranking with flooring the go pedal. I have 180K and changed my lift pump and injector pump at 140K. I'm going to try the uphill/downhill test, and gonna recheck all the fittings and snug them up if they need it. I got no codes on mine either. I sure am thankful for all this info guys!

 

[BLamb]

My problem only seems to be related the truck sitting for quite a while. My son borrowed it yesterday and it started fine after running last weekend. While he had it out he took it to the pump and injector shop that had changed out the injector pump and lift pump (quite a while ago). They really did not have any ideas and did not bring up the air leak issue until he did. I think I am going to try the same thing as you recheck every fitting under the hood for tightness.



Good luck and let us know if you find anything. I'll do the same.



Bill

 

[jhoughton]

If the lift pump is still mounted to the engine in it's original location your air leak is probably from the lift pump to the tank. As stated above if you don't have a fuel pressure gauge you need one. That way you know if your not pushing/pulling fuel. If it does it again before cranking it alot. Try bumping the starter and letting the lift pump run the 20-30 second a couple of times. If the pump is sucking air you will hear the tone change when it starts pulling fuel. Then bump and cycle one more time and the truck should start. There are a couple of fuel line disconnects one near the lift pump and one on top of the fuel tank that have rubber O rings. These can dry out and allow small air leaks but once fuel hits them they will seal and not leak again until it sits for awhile again.

 

[BLamb]

The lift pump is in the original location so I'll check that. I did cycle (key off, wait, key on, wait for wait to start light to got out then crank) every time I tied to start it.

Thanks,

Bill

 

[jhoughton]

Bill,

Cycling the key only runs the liftpump a couple of seconds. Bumping the starter just enough to engage the starter but not cranking the engine should run the lift pump for 20-30 seconds.

Jim

 

[BLamb]

Jim,

Yes that tracks, I could hear the lift pump running for a while after I ended a cranking "session".

Thanks,

Bill

 

[NMcCoy]

mine did the same thing after it had sat for about three weeks, It started right up then died, I tryed to restart and nothing. I ended up tapping the starter to run the LP a few times then tryed to start it, after 30 sec it fired up.



I checked the fuel sys out and did find that my fuel psi sender was a little damp from fuel. I cleaned and resealed it and so far no problems.



It does sound like your getting air and looseing your prime.

 

[BLamb]

mine did the same thing after it had sat for about three weeks, It started right up then died, I tryed to restart and nothing. I ended up tapping the starter to run the LP a few times then tryed to start it, after 30 sec it fired up.



I checked the fuel sys out and did find that my fuel psi sender was a little damp from fuel. I cleaned and resealed it and so far no problems.



It does sound like your getting air and looseing your prime.

Yes its really sounding like a small leak allowing some air to get in the system. Thanks!

Bill