Here is a discussion from the family that traveled fron USA to Argentina in a VW dasher TDI fueled on fryer fat
VW on fryer fat
VW on fryer fat
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Starting a Biodiesel Forum........
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Bio and veggie oil
Thanks for providing that! Making this kind of trip isn't something I would want to do, but it proves that diesel engines can survive the oil-based energy crisis, which is only going to get worse as China comes on board with its demands.
I hope someone (TDR, are you listening?) gets on board and pushes a manufacturer to produce this kind of fuel now. It's gotta be done by private enterprise because if we wait for government to do it, we'll be paying $10 per gallon for it.
Thanks for providing that! Making this kind of trip isn't something I would want to do, but it proves that diesel engines can survive the oil-based energy crisis, which is only going to get worse as China comes on board with its demands.
I hope someone (TDR, are you listening?) gets on board and pushes a manufacturer to produce this kind of fuel now. It's gotta be done by private enterprise because if we wait for government to do it, we'll be paying $10 per gallon for it.
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The following was copied from the Berkeley ecology centers website.
www.ecologycenter.org/erc/fact_sheets/biodiesel.html
BIODIESEL RESOURCES
For more information on purchasing biodiesel, producing your own biodiesel, or converting a vehicle to run on straight vegetable oil, read From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank: The Complete Guide to Using Vegetable Oil as an Alternative Fuel by Joshua Tickell (Tickell Energy Consulting, 2000) or visit the following websites.
* www.biodiesel.org
* www.journeytoforever.org
* www.mauibiodiesel.org
* www.biodiesel.com
* www.dancingrabbit.org
* www.chelseacenter.org
There are also several email lists dedicated to small and large scale biodiesel production and use.
* www.biodiesel.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic/a/cfrm
* www.groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuels-biz
* www.groups.yahoo.com/group/biodiesel
* www.groups.yahoo.com/vegoil-diesel (specializes in the use of straight vegetable oil)
* www.groups.yahoo.com/marinbiodiesel (for local Marin discussion)
* www.goblin.punk.net/mailman/listinfo/burnveggies (for Bay Area and N. California discussion)
For information on local environmentalists involved in the small-scale production of biodiesel, write to -- email address removed --.
www.ecologycenter.org/erc/fact_sheets/biodiesel.html
BIODIESEL RESOURCES
For more information on purchasing biodiesel, producing your own biodiesel, or converting a vehicle to run on straight vegetable oil, read From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank: The Complete Guide to Using Vegetable Oil as an Alternative Fuel by Joshua Tickell (Tickell Energy Consulting, 2000) or visit the following websites.
* www.biodiesel.org
* www.journeytoforever.org
* www.mauibiodiesel.org
* www.biodiesel.com
* www.dancingrabbit.org
* www.chelseacenter.org
There are also several email lists dedicated to small and large scale biodiesel production and use.
* www.biodiesel.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic/a/cfrm
* www.groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuels-biz
* www.groups.yahoo.com/group/biodiesel
* www.groups.yahoo.com/vegoil-diesel (specializes in the use of straight vegetable oil)
* www.groups.yahoo.com/marinbiodiesel (for local Marin discussion)
* www.goblin.punk.net/mailman/listinfo/burnveggies (for Bay Area and N. California discussion)
For information on local environmentalists involved in the small-scale production of biodiesel, write to -- email address removed --.
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Diesel Fuel from city dumps, etc...
I just watched a program on "The Science Channel" that was reporting on a company that has developed a $20M buck processing plant that takes all of the waste turkey meat from a huge turkey processor and CONVERTS it all to diesel fuel.
The owner made the statement that IF all the agricultural waste in the USA were diverted to his processing plants, that it would produce more diesel fuel than all of the annual oil imports we are buying today!!!
He now has plants that are converting city sewage to diesel and gasolene. Other plants that are chewing up used tires, converting them to activated charcoal which then is further processed into oil, diesel, gasolene or sold to end users for them to process.
Technology will keep the diesel and gasolene flowing it does seem. I suppose that it will cost more per gallon. He didn't mention the cost vs efficiency. Would get cheaper I suppose with larger scale operations and more technological improvements.
I just watched a program on "The Science Channel" that was reporting on a company that has developed a $20M buck processing plant that takes all of the waste turkey meat from a huge turkey processor and CONVERTS it all to diesel fuel.
The owner made the statement that IF all the agricultural waste in the USA were diverted to his processing plants, that it would produce more diesel fuel than all of the annual oil imports we are buying today!!!
He now has plants that are converting city sewage to diesel and gasolene. Other plants that are chewing up used tires, converting them to activated charcoal which then is further processed into oil, diesel, gasolene or sold to end users for them to process.
Technology will keep the diesel and gasolene flowing it does seem. I suppose that it will cost more per gallon. He didn't mention the cost vs efficiency. Would get cheaper I suppose with larger scale operations and more technological improvements.
It'll work when ...
This will work only when they find a way to get it into the tank of the end user. It's fine to have the technology, but the distribution process is complex. Gotta have a place to store it (tank farms), way to transport it (trucks), place to take it (service stations), and people to buy it. Until all that happens, alternative liquid fuel will remain backyard stuff. In the meantime, hybrids may make the whole thing moot. They are clean, non-polluting and cheap.
And, of course, there's the matter of gasoline companies working through unions, etc. , to keep alternative fuels off the market. All they gotta do is tell workers their jobs are on the line if these fuels get off the ground.
This is kinda like why mass transit won't work in this country. You gotta have a way to get the user to and from his destination at the end of the line. Until we can do that, we are gonna keep using the automobile to get from one place to another.
This will work only when they find a way to get it into the tank of the end user. It's fine to have the technology, but the distribution process is complex. Gotta have a place to store it (tank farms), way to transport it (trucks), place to take it (service stations), and people to buy it. Until all that happens, alternative liquid fuel will remain backyard stuff. In the meantime, hybrids may make the whole thing moot. They are clean, non-polluting and cheap.
And, of course, there's the matter of gasoline companies working through unions, etc. , to keep alternative fuels off the market. All they gotta do is tell workers their jobs are on the line if these fuels get off the ground.
This is kinda like why mass transit won't work in this country. You gotta have a way to get the user to and from his destination at the end of the line. Until we can do that, we are gonna keep using the automobile to get from one place to another.
The stuff he is producing is not bio-diesel. It is real diesel fuel because the conversion process makes oil first, then diesel/gasolene from the oil.
The normal distribution channels already in effect are all that is needed.
The normal distribution channels already in effect are all that is needed.
Jeremiah,
I agree on the veggie bio-diesel production. That stuff is very good for both the environment and the injection pumps. Lots of lubricity there.
Veggie distribution will require an investment on the part of every participant in the distribution chain right down to the retailer.
Point granted... it was an obvious one anyway. I just miss took your comment as being related to the black oil conversion process.
However, I think the Science channel (DirecTV 284) missed one point that they should have made.
This stuff is being converted into black oil by heat and pressure. I think that negates a lot of the old scientific theories about the dinos were the only source of our black oil.
One source, yes, but not exclusively.
I agree on the veggie bio-diesel production. That stuff is very good for both the environment and the injection pumps. Lots of lubricity there.
Veggie distribution will require an investment on the part of every participant in the distribution chain right down to the retailer.
Point granted... it was an obvious one anyway. I just miss took your comment as being related to the black oil conversion process.
However, I think the Science channel (DirecTV 284) missed one point that they should have made.
This stuff is being converted into black oil by heat and pressure. I think that negates a lot of the old scientific theories about the dinos were the only source of our black oil.
One source, yes, but not exclusively.
As far as a significant number of INDIVIDUALS obtaining raw WVO and doing their own conversion to diesel fuel on a regular and steady basis, I seriously doubt that will be found to be long-term practical, or even do-able for most.
I was, and still am interested in the process - but problem at the local level all revolves around required handling of discarded oil waste - in short, it is VERY difficult to obtain a reliable source for WVO!
Most eating establishments operating on a large scale - the chain outfits libe McDonalds, Burger King and such are very structured as to how incoming and outgoing materials are handled. And simply handing out a few gallons of WVO to any guy who wanders in and asks for it is NOT in their corporate manual!
Even the smaller independents are governed by state Hazardous Materials regulations - and are usually signed up to a state licensed waste removal firm who supplies them with storage containers, and schedules regular waste pickup.
The business owner isn't about to face fines for undocumented distribution of waste, and the normal waste hauler is NOT going to be very happy to see his scheduled pickup was compromised because the business owner allowed some stranger to siphon off 50 gallons or more of what the waste hauler was scheduled to haul away!
One local business I approached was also concerned about the type of container I could supply for them to deposit WVO into - and stated they could not keep the 50 gallon drum I would supply inside their establishment - nor would they assume the vandalism risk of keeping it outside where it might be tipped over - leaving them with LOTS of paperwork, cleanup costs and possible environmental fines.
Other states may be easier to deal with - but I have been directly involved in California state hazardous materials disposal - and it AIN'T easy here to find a ready and adequate steady source of WVO. NOR is it practical or cost-efficient to run all over the country trying to locate the few potential sources willing or able to sidestep state regulations relative to waste disposal. I wish it was easier, but around HERE, it is not!
Good luck to you guys in other states.
I was, and still am interested in the process - but problem at the local level all revolves around required handling of discarded oil waste - in short, it is VERY difficult to obtain a reliable source for WVO!
Most eating establishments operating on a large scale - the chain outfits libe McDonalds, Burger King and such are very structured as to how incoming and outgoing materials are handled. And simply handing out a few gallons of WVO to any guy who wanders in and asks for it is NOT in their corporate manual!
Even the smaller independents are governed by state Hazardous Materials regulations - and are usually signed up to a state licensed waste removal firm who supplies them with storage containers, and schedules regular waste pickup.
The business owner isn't about to face fines for undocumented distribution of waste, and the normal waste hauler is NOT going to be very happy to see his scheduled pickup was compromised because the business owner allowed some stranger to siphon off 50 gallons or more of what the waste hauler was scheduled to haul away!
One local business I approached was also concerned about the type of container I could supply for them to deposit WVO into - and stated they could not keep the 50 gallon drum I would supply inside their establishment - nor would they assume the vandalism risk of keeping it outside where it might be tipped over - leaving them with LOTS of paperwork, cleanup costs and possible environmental fines.
Other states may be easier to deal with - but I have been directly involved in California state hazardous materials disposal - and it AIN'T easy here to find a ready and adequate steady source of WVO. NOR is it practical or cost-efficient to run all over the country trying to locate the few potential sources willing or able to sidestep state regulations relative to waste disposal. I wish it was easier, but around HERE, it is not!
Good luck to you guys in other states.
Gary,
I don't think that on a personal level WVO will ever be a popular trend. it will always be the domain of the self starter, energetic soul who is willing to experiment and put up with the hassles.
Your California laws make it more difficult, but not impossible. I should think it will always be on a much smaller scale than elsewhere.
One gentleman I corresponded with has an inside track. He owns a small chain of fish restaurants and is able to control the whole process from the fryer to how it gets disposed of. In his unique case, the WVO goes thru a special container with strainers that drain into his 5 gallon cans. he is able to just dump the strained product straight into his truck. The truck (Ford Expedition) however has heated fuel tanks and heated fuel lines with special Racor 2 micron filters. He hasn't bought any fuel for it since he bought the truck and installed the WVO system on it two years ago. For him, it is a no brainer.
For the majority of the diesel buying public, that will never be the case. If it isn't in a pump ready to go, they won't bother...
I don't think that on a personal level WVO will ever be a popular trend. it will always be the domain of the self starter, energetic soul who is willing to experiment and put up with the hassles.
Your California laws make it more difficult, but not impossible. I should think it will always be on a much smaller scale than elsewhere.
One gentleman I corresponded with has an inside track. He owns a small chain of fish restaurants and is able to control the whole process from the fryer to how it gets disposed of. In his unique case, the WVO goes thru a special container with strainers that drain into his 5 gallon cans. he is able to just dump the strained product straight into his truck. The truck (Ford Expedition) however has heated fuel tanks and heated fuel lines with special Racor 2 micron filters. He hasn't bought any fuel for it since he bought the truck and installed the WVO system on it two years ago. For him, it is a no brainer.
For the majority of the diesel buying public, that will never be the case. If it isn't in a pump ready to go, they won't bother...
Good article... . Wish they were in Arizona. Our sole supplier is asking over $3. 25 a gallon when I last inquired. About a buck and a dime more than dino fuel.
Government getting in the way
If people are smart they will manufacture and market this fuel without government involvement. Once the feds put money behind it or into it, everyone up and down the ladder will have to comply with federal regulations. And that's where the thing will bog down if it begins hitting the oil industry in the pocket. Oil refineries have senators and representatives in their pockets. Either that or the oil industry will just buy out the alternative fuel manufacturer and shut 'em down.
If people are smart they will manufacture and market this fuel without government involvement. Once the feds put money behind it or into it, everyone up and down the ladder will have to comply with federal regulations. And that's where the thing will bog down if it begins hitting the oil industry in the pocket. Oil refineries have senators and representatives in their pockets. Either that or the oil industry will just buy out the alternative fuel manufacturer and shut 'em down.
gary, i have been homebrewing for almost 6 months now,and i have too much oil! ive had to tell some restaurants i cant pick it up anymore and then gear up production chinese restaurants are the best, clean oil, clean containers, i'm now getting together equipment so i can make 55 gallons at a time instead of the 20 at a time ive been making
too much oil... I love it...
I doubt that you'll ever see 100% Biodiesel widely available at the pump. The current industry thinking is leaning towards using Bio as a 20% blend with regualr Diesel (B20). Manufacturers are currently testing their engines at this blend level, and fuel distributers are currently delivering that fuel to test markets. I bet they'll start adding it, and not necessarily asdvertising it, the same way they currently do with ethanol/methanol in gasoline.
I attended the National Biodiesel Conference in Palm Springs last Winter. Before attending I thought that Biodiesel might be available in B100 concentrations at the pump some day, but after seeing that even the National Biodiesel Board is pushing B20 I now think that's the way it's going to go.
Either way is OK with me. I've been home-brewing for 4 years, and running an old Benz on SVO too.
My 2 cents.
Joe
I attended the National Biodiesel Conference in Palm Springs last Winter. Before attending I thought that Biodiesel might be available in B100 concentrations at the pump some day, but after seeing that even the National Biodiesel Board is pushing B20 I now think that's the way it's going to go.
Either way is OK with me. I've been home-brewing for 4 years, and running an old Benz on SVO too.
My 2 cents.
Joe
Fergit Colorado Springs bio-diesel
Colorado Springs drivers who have biodiesel on their minds can forget about it. I went by the Acorn station on Sahwatch two blocks south of Cimmaron and found a filthy and muddy parking lot filled with commercial trucks - cement, haulers, etc. Couldn't get to the pump if I wanted to and didn't have time to wait Oo. .
Colorado Springs drivers who have biodiesel on their minds can forget about it. I went by the Acorn station on Sahwatch two blocks south of Cimmaron and found a filthy and muddy parking lot filled with commercial trucks - cement, haulers, etc. Couldn't get to the pump if I wanted to and didn't have time to wait Oo. .
I need a lot of Bio
Is it feasable to make 500 gals of Bio per day. Fuel is costing me nearly 10K more per month, and I need a solution. I am considering all options, including making bio at my business for my fleet to use. We average 500-700 gals per day in purchases. I can invest in the infrastructure, if feasable.
any ideas.
Is it feasable to make 500 gals of Bio per day. Fuel is costing me nearly 10K more per month, and I need a solution. I am considering all options, including making bio at my business for my fleet to use. We average 500-700 gals per day in purchases. I can invest in the infrastructure, if feasable.
any ideas.
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