Starting issues, need help!

[rowland]

I got up this Sunday morning and went to start my trusty '89 Cummins. I waited for the buzz to stop and then cranked it over... . and over... and over...



Nothing happened, it didn't even start to fire. I've been scratching my head over it for two days now, the best idea I can come up with is that my fuel shut off soleniod is stuck closed. The thing ran perfectly when I shut it off Friday ( at -40 F!)



Has this happened to anybody else? Is there a way to test the thing? What is the best way to get it out? Any other ideas?



I tested and I am getting juice to the connection.



This is my only set of wheels and I need it back!



Thanks.

 

[AlK]

rowland,

A few thoughts.

I would crack one of the fuel lines on an injector to see if you are getting any fuel. If not then perhaps your lift pump has gone on south. To check it crack open the low pressure supply line by the fuel/water separator and pump the lever on the lift pump, you may have to bump the engine over with the motor.

Check the fuel filter to make sure that it is not plugged up.

An air leak in the fuel system will also create a no start situation.

If it is the fuel solenoid then you can undertake a temporary fix. See the following thread:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30074&highlight=fuel+solenoid

---

Al

 

[paccool]

Rowland, I don't think the plunger is stuck. Most likely the coil burned out that opens the selinoid. See my post "truck died today", 12/17/01, first gen section. There is some info there you may find helpful. Mine crapped out when towing my travel trailer through San Francisco. That was a real joy:{

 

[rowland]

Thanks for the help guys, I have tools and manuals arriving tomorrow so I will see what I can do then. It even warmed up to 10 F ! That makes things alot more bearable since I have to work on the thing in the parking lot.



I seem to hear a small click when I touch the wire to the terminal. (on the soleniod) Does this mean anything? I guess I have to take it out to find out for sure.



I also thought about the lift pump, however it would have to have gone out all at once as the truck was running when I parked it. Is there any warning signs of a bad lift pump? I did seem to be losing a little speed on the hills lately, I assumed that was the load in the back. Guess I better look into it.



Thanks again.

 

[CumminsAholic]

Our 89 had a similar condition, but it'd start. It'd start and then die right away when was under 30 degrees. After it dies it wouldn't start without starting fluid. I only did that 2 times... and then I got it in the shop. It was the lift pump, the rod had come unattatched from the plunger, so the rod moved, but didn't do any good as the plunger stayed in one spot. Put a new lift pump on and now it starts great no matter how cold it is. I'd check the lift pump, it's easy to do and could be the problem. Plus... it was way cheaper than the one for my 24v.

Corey

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Just a thought, but at those temps fuel gelling is a real possibility.

If your not using a decent/ample fuel additive you may have problems with the fuel itself.

I had the same problem with mine in -45*F and it was not fun.

Been using fuel additive since, all year round.



JMO<

bob

 

[rowland]

I have considered the possiblilty of fuel gelling, however I fueled up a busy station at -40*F and drove it that way for a day, (including leting it sit, unpluged, for 3 hr. ) with no problems. The day it wouldn't start was only -5*F. Still a possiblity I guess.



Thanks



Rowland

 

[paccool]

Bushwakr, -45 degrees?! wow, think we need to start calling you Nanook of the north



Not sure my truck would like those kind of temps(know I wouldn't)



Whats the coldest it gets up there?

 

[zgordons]

I had the same thing happen to me, replaced the lift pump, and solved the problem. Mine went out just as you explained as well, parked it the night before, next morning cranked over fine, but would not fire. Good luck.

 

[Lil' Dog]

If the fuel is a little gelled it may pull that rod off of the lift pump. . It shouldn't happen though, Try a shot of some of the instant de-gelling stuff they sell at Farm supply stores or truck stops and see if you get any fuel out of the bleeder above the fuel filter. At least you could rule out the lift pump and start looking at the solenoid and what have you.



Paccool 2 mornings ago it was -34°C (-31°F) without the wind chill factor. .



JJJJJJ-J-eh

 

[rowland]

Thanks guys,



My tools arrrive in 20 min. so I will attempt to brave the cold and figure out what is wrong. To make things more interesting it is snowing and I drained the battery the other day while messing with it.



I miss my shop.



Isaac Rowland

 

[rowland]

Update

Ok, here is the latest. I got the battery fully charged and started messing with things. The first thing I did was crack an injection line while while cranking with the starter. I did get fuel out, however it seemed more like a slow leak than something out of a high pressure line. Nevertheless, I can scratch the fuel shut off idea.



I also cracked the low pressure fuel line while working the primer pump by hand. I got fuel so I know that the lift pump isn't totally shot.



Atempts to start resulted in the engine firing on one cylinder about once every revolution or so. I didn't sound like a cold start sound so I can probobly scratch the heater idea.



I guess that leaves me with a bad lift pump unless you guys have any other ideas. Will do some pricing tomorrow. I think I can replace that in the lot. Although it is supposed to hit -25*F. No fun.



Thanks for all your help.



Isaac Rowland

 

[paccool]

Rowland, this has already been suggested but I keep wondering about the fuel. You said you had filled up and drove around that day before and shut it down for 3 hours. How bout this scenerio - Fuel had some moisture in it. Filling and driving around kept it in suspension. The 3 hour shutdown wasn't long enough to allow the water to settle out and freeze or gel. Overnight shut down was. My brother had something like this happen to him with his 95 in Wyoming a few years back during a cold snap. Shut down for the night, next morning it wouldn't start. They towed it to a garage and put it inside for a few hours. It started fine after sitting for a couple of hours and warming up.



You got any good friends that might let you use their garage?

 

[A Johnson]

Rowland, change the filter to eliminate the possibility of frozen water in the element. If the lift pump was pumping by hand it will probably pump by the engine. Pull the plunger out of the fuel solenoid and check it for debris. While its out leave it out, that other lever on the side of the pump is a manual shutdown , this way you eliminate the filter and the solenoid, If you can put a pressure gauge on your pressure side of the lift pump , this will tell you if its working, . 5 psi during cranking should be enough to start just fine. Also if you have a salamander type heater available point it at the truck while your doing the other stuff , this will help warm you and the fuel in the case it is fuel gelling.

In any case you will probably get a little fuel at the injectors even if the solenoid is stuck closed. Best of luck

 

[rowland]

Running!

Late last night as I was lying in bed contemplating my problems, two things occured to me.



One: The engine was now firing on one cylinder.

Two: I had bled one injector line to see if I was getting fuel.



First chance I got I ran down and bled ALL the injector lines. Cranked it, and she started right off. So I guess I'm still as much in the dark as ever about what was keeping it from running..... I'm guessing something along the lines of the fuel gelling/water in fuel senario right now. Either that or it was some odd form of vapor lock caused by the overnight temperature rise of 35*.



Either way, the first thing I did was run down and buy a bottle of fuel treatment. Hope that solves the problem. Guess I should invest in a case of that stuff at these temps.



Thanks for all the help guys.



Rowland

 

[paccool]

The main this is that you got it running!Oo. Keep us updated if you find anything else. Ask the station where you got fuel if anyone else had any trouble. They probably won't tell you the truth but it won't hurt to ask.