Steering Box upgrades, whats the latest

[brillmtb]

I think my 2003 steering box is going out, it is a replacement red head. I have 200K on my truck and did the steering upgrades with pitman, tie rods and both sides of drag link. Getting a little clunking mostly through the wheel as I turn lightly, not noticed when the tires hit a small hole, steering shaft upgraded recently so that leave the box or other parts. When I get under the truck and have my son rock the wheel L to R and have my hand on the steering box or pitman I can feel a clicking/clunking. I understand that the Mopar Steering Box Upgrade Kit '03-'08 Ram HD, part number 68170214AA is probably the best to put in there is I am right about it being the box. I also have the steering box stablizer for the stock size box/red head box and I understand this would have to go with the newer box as it has a larger shaft. I understand that I could just leave it off as the box is much stronger or order a new stablizer.

Thoughts?

 

[Bob4x4]

The Mopar box has the largest sector shaft available for the 3rd gen.I ditched my steering box stabilizer when I went that route.It has held up for me for years now and I run 37"

 

[Ozymandias]

So did I, great Box. Very heavy, need a helper to install it. PnP

 

[cerberusiam]

There is a bearing available for the SS and you have to modify the holes, option is there if needed. Unless you can actually verify the frame is twisting it really isn't needed. The box definitely has some different manners than the original or a Borgeson box.

 

[brods]

If you have too much time and want to kill some, read this thread: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/235124-03-08-steering-box-upgrade

I got that box 3-1/2 years ago and it is indeed much beefier than the stock box that came on the truck. Other than that it seems to be hit or miss, like so many of the upgrades that people rave about. Before installing it on the truck it was stiff when passing through center while rotating it by hand. I assumed it would wear in. It also seems to have lots of play, you can turn the input shaft back and forth a bunch before the pitman are appears to move. It has heavier steering feel compared to the stock box. Its not a big deal, but it is noticeable most of the time. See Superdawg posts in the thread above where he shares his negative experience with the box, like this one: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/235124-03-08-steering-box-upgrade?p=2310537#post2310537
Or this one by R.Taylor: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/235124-03-08-steering-box-upgrade?p=2335483#post2335483

Who knows maybe we all got bad boxes and/or maybe they have improved it over the last few years of production, if not then don't expect it to have any performance increase compared to the stock box. On my truck it is a slight downgrade in performance, but the rationalization was that it would make up for it by having better durability and longevity. Unfortunately that is not looking good either since the input shaft already has some play with signs of weepage around it and that is with only 25K miles on it. If I had money to burn I might try sending it to red head for tweaking.....YMMV

 

[brillmtb]

So which box did you put in, the new mopar, I have heard only good things and tighter steering. I dont like play when towing.

 

[Regcabguy]

The Mopar box has the largest sector shaft available for the 3rd gen.I ditched my steering box stabilizer when I went that route.It has held up for me for years now and I run 37"

Bob4x4 is among the Holy Grail of consultants for these trucks.

 

[Ozymandias]

If you have too much time and want to kill some, read this thread: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/235124-03-08-steering-box-upgrade

I got that box 3-1/2 years ago and it is indeed much beefier than the stock box that came on the truck. Other than that it seems to be hit or miss, like so many of the upgrades that people rave about. Before installing it on the truck it was stiff when passing through center while rotating it by hand. I assumed it would wear in. It also seems to have lots of play, you can turn the input shaft back and forth a bunch before the pitman are appears to move. It has heavier steering feel compared to the stock box. Its not a big deal, but it is noticeable most of the time. See Superdawg posts in the thread above where he shares his negative experience with the box, like this one: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/235124-03-08-steering-box-upgrade?p=2310537#post2310537
Or this one by R.Taylor: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/235124-03-08-steering-box-upgrade?p=2335483#post2335483

Who knows maybe we all got bad boxes and/or maybe they have improved it over the last few years of production, if not then don't expect it to have any performance increase compared to the stock box. On my truck it is a slight downgrade in performance, but the rationalization was that it would make up for it by having better durability and longevity. Unfortunately that is not looking good either since the input shaft already has some play with signs of weepage around it and that is with only 25K miles on it. If I had money to burn I might try sending it to red head for tweaking.....YMMV

I feel real sorry for, but why didn't you gave that faulty box back in warranty????????????
A Box that has even slight play in it is for sure not right built and has to be sent back to the seller?
Why did you hold it and now wine about in the forum?

This new Box is perfect and thight as it could be - absolutely ZERO play in it even after 40000M now on the Truck.

So please to everyone, if you get a faulty part, please send it back to the vendor and get one that works properly.

 

[brods]

So which box did you put in, the new mopar, I have heard only good things and tighter steering. I dont like play when towing.

68170214AA

I feel real sorry for, but why didn't you gave that faulty box back in warranty????????????
A Box that has even slight play in it is for sure not right built and has to be sent back to the seller?
Why did you hold it and now wine about in the forum?

This new Box is perfect and thight as it could be - absolutely ZERO play in it even after 40000M now on the Truck.

So please to everyone, if you get a faulty part, please send it back to the vendor and get one that works properly.

Whine? Sorry that it bothers you that some people have not had a overwhelmingly positive experience with this product. And I am not the only one! Should we all keep quiet and let everyone else think there is never an issue with this steering box???

One of the problems with these forums is the group think where everyone gushes about a product and then no one is willing to say anything negative for fear of being accused of having an agenda or whining or simply because after spending $$$ no one wants to think they threw their money away. I am not a steering box expert. I buy new products and expect them to work. And because of all the gushing reviews of this box I started looking everywhere else for an issue. Since installing the box the ball joints and the entire steering linkage has been changed. Same results. Is the box bad? I don't know. Was it on the crappy side of the allowable production tolerances? I don't know. Is it the greatest thing since sliced bread as all the reviews seem to imply? Absolutely not. Buyer beware.

 

[Bob4x4]

You may be missing the point of Ozzys comment,if your box is not right get it warrantied.If you have other problems get them straightened out.

 

[petersonj]

Getting a little clunking mostly through the wheel as I turn lightly, not noticed when the tires hit a small hole, steering shaft upgraded recently so that leave the box or other parts.

Is the steering shaft upgrade a Borgeson? The reason I ask is that I have installed one on my '02 (at the same time a Borgeson steering box as well) and although it is working fine now, it took me about 25,000 miles of driving it to figure out an unusual steering problem with the same symptoms you describe. I realize the my truck is an '02, but the steering shaft design is basically the same.

In my case Borgeson used a spring tensioner in the slip yoke part of the steering shaft (probably to minimize play) and this caused too much friction and the slip yoke was very difficult to move. The tensioner is shaped like a leaf spring and I used a press to reduce the tension, but it was still too much friction. I finally just removed it, and all of the symptoms disappeared and the truck steers much better now. I posted a very detailed version of this problem under the 2nd Generation, no engine forum a few months ago.

In your case this may not be an issue at all, but if it is, you could be chasing the problem for a long time.

- John

 

[cerberusiam]

The 3rd gen systems are different. Clunking in the steering box is usually cured by adjusting the slack in the rack, that is what the adjuster screw on the top of the box is for. When the slack in the sector shaft is adjusted out and you can feel it dragging going thru center there is wear or something else wrong internally.

 

[Regcabguy]

My bud installed the Mopar box. Chuck the stabilizer as Bob posted. It's the last box you'll ever need.

 

[brillmtb]

Is the steering shaft upgrade a Borgeson? The reason I ask is that I have installed one on my '02 (at the same time a Borgeson steering box as well) and although it is working fine now, it took me about 25,000 miles of driving it to figure out an unusual steering problem with the same symptoms you describe. I realize the my truck is an '02, but the steering shaft design is basically the same.

In my case Borgeson used a spring tensioner in the slip yoke part of the steering shaft (probably to minimize play) and this caused too much friction and the slip yoke was very difficult to move. The tensioner is shaped like a leaf spring and I used a press to reduce the tension, but it was still too much friction. I finally just removed it, and all of the symptoms disappeared and the truck steers much better now. I posted a very detailed version of this problem under the 2nd Generation, no engine forum a few months ago.

In your case this may not be an issue at all, but if it is, you could be chasing the problem for a long time.

- John

I did just recently put in the Borgeson intermediate shaft

 

[brillmtb]

I was wondering if over time there is some "loosening" of the box that is normal and can be adjusted. I have the redhead box now. I will see if I can locate something on how to adjust with the screw. So I f I understand correctly I can adjust this out and if everything is smooth through center then problem solved, if dragging then new box time

 

[Bob4x4]

ADJUSTMENT

CAUTION: Steering gear must be adjusted in the proper order. If adjustments are not performed in order, gear damage and improper steering response may result.

NOTE: Adjusting the steering gear in the vehicle is not recommended. Remove gear from the vehicle and drain the fluid. Then mount gear in a vise to perform adjustments.

Remove the steering gear from the vehicle (Refer to 19 - STEERING/GEAR - REMOVAL).
Mount the gear carefully into a soft-jawed vise.
CAUTION: Do not overtighten the vise on the gear case. This may affect the adjustment

Hold the steering gear upside down over a drain pan and rotate the input shaft back and forth several times lock-to-lock to discharge the fluid from the steering gear
Rotate the input shaft to the left stop and then back-off approximately 45 degrees. Using an inch-pound torque wrench on the input shaft, record the peak torque required to slowly and evenly rotate the input shaft clockwise ½ turn (180 degrees) starting from the 45 degree position. This peak torque reading is the preload torque. The preload torque must be within 2 - 10 in-lbs.
Rotate the input shaft to its center of travel (approximately 1.5 turns from either stop). Place the torque wrench on the input shaft with the handle in the vertical position. Rotate the torque wrench slowly and evenly ¼ turn (90 degrees) each side of center and record the peak torque measure on or near center. This total on-center torque reading must be 5 - 9 in-lbs higher than the previously measured preload torque without exceeding a total of 17 in-lbs. The value of the total on-center minus the preload torque is defined as the meshload torque
If required, adjust the on-center torque by loosening the adjuster screw lock nut and turning the adjuster screw until the total on-center and meshload torque readings fall within the specified values. Turn the adjuster screw clockwise to increase and counterclockwise to decrease the torque reading. While holding the adjuster screw in place, tighten the lock nut to 34 N·m (25 ft. lbs.).
Re-check the preload and on-center torque readings.
Install pitman arm on the steering gear (Refer to 19 - STEERING/LINKAGE/PITMAN ARM - INSTALLATION).
Reinstall steering gear to the vehicle (Refer to 19 - STEERING/GEAR - INSTALLATION).

 

[brillmtb]

Bummer, I was really hoping I could do this myself with it installed in the truck.

 

[Bob4x4]

Many have tried,many have failed,some have been lucky.The general trend that I have seen is most get over zealous and go too far.The instuctions I posted give you the safe way

 

[cerberusiam]

You can do it on the truck, just have to be aware that too loose is better than too tight. If there is where you will have vertical play in the sector shaft which will translate to looseness in the steering and a rattle\clunk at times. You have gone too far when it starts dragging thru center. With a worn box it amounts to living with a little play to get smooth steering.

When I adjusted mine at 160k I had over 1/8 vertical play in the sector shaft and there was obvious slack between input and the sector shaft moving. All the slack removed and it was tight thru the center. Slack was gone but it wasn't smooth and had a tendency NOT to return to center by itself. Backing off the tension smoother it out and return to center worked but there was slight vertical movement and slack between input and the shaft moving.

The new Mopar box has a completely different feel than the stock or a Borgeson or a Red head. Whether it is a ratio change or valving change or both is hard to tell. It will feel heavier coming from the others. It will also have a lot more road fell and input form the suspension cycling. It should not be tight across center, that would indicate it is adjusted wrong. It still steered easily with a couple fingers going down the road if everything else is good. I put it in with a pump that has 11 years and 260k on it and it will turn the wheels easily both ways sitting still, and that is with wider taller tires than stock.

If you have some of the issues described here, the box may not be adjusted correctly. It is built by machine so it is entirely possible fine tuning may be needed rather than just complaining it is bad. Perfection is going to cost a lot more. Half the problems indicate a steering stabilizer problem which is pretty common regardless of how new it is. The single steering shock system fell off mine a long time ago in favor of dual opposed shocks. Not as good for off-roading but a lot less problematic in other areas.

I have done 2 of these and put quite a few miles on them. Once you get used to how it feels and works it is better than the OE. You get much better road feel without the wander on rough roads and an suspension lift, even wit the t-type steering. With a cross over steering system control and feel is much more enhanced.

 

[brillmtb]

I wonder if I turn in the adjustment screw clockwise a quarter turn or so at a time and test drive the truck if this will be adequate to see if it is changing things